to all those hilariously claiming it's not religious fundamentalism:





once again you choose political allegiance over common sense. he obviously is, triggered by my nationality and pointing out what a shithole america is.

My argument RE: Ukraine and gas was that a complete gas embargo would trigger a catastrophic recession which would permanently cost my country tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of jobs. That's a wholly different ballpark than gas being a few cents more expensive.

What you imho don't understand is that such draconian laws put every women under some sort of permanent threat to her autonomy and way of life. It affects everyone, not just the ones who are irresponsibly whoring around. It since it affects all American women in states with such laws, it will indirectly also be a concern for many of their fathers, brothers, husbands.



If you consider "banning 99.X% of all abortions" to be "giving up", you're either trolling or a deluded zealot. Polls show somewhere between 60 and 75% of Americans to favor some degree of abortion rights. Against this backdrop, banning abortion in all red and most purple states, with some narrow exceptions for cases of rape or the life of the mother, can hardly be considered anything but a huge victory for the pro-life movement. By contrast, after the Battle of Midway, the U.S. had the upper hand militarily, they had the stronger forces.



But that is the fucking point: banning abortions is not a priority for every member of the GOP coalition, and some of them will be actively against forcing girls to carry her rapists baby to term. And while the GOP coalition might be strong in the sense that they tolerate a lot of norm-breaking, it is NOT a strong coalition numerically speaking. Their grip on power is hanging by a thread, there is virtually no wiggle room for defections.

I get what your argument is, I just vehemently disagree with it. Imho, people will not get used to "it" and the GOP is making a catastrophic mistake by overreaching. And yes, banning abortion with no exceptions whatsoever is overreach.
Imho, if they really go through with this course, it will backfire badly.

I guess time will tell who was right.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 3 2022 12:47pm

what would they learn reading 3 paragraphs (of what exactly)? i used to be catholic on paper, but it doesn't make any sense to me, except of course the part about centuries of oppressing women and blatant hypocrisy - but i strongly assume that tradition is not the point you're trying to make there, correct?

regarding blackx' ignorance concerning the GQP's base - i think it's a classic case of cowardice and trying to downplay the extent of conservative extremism. there is a tiny chance that as a fellow european he genuinely doesn't get how seriously deranged and tribal those people are, but i think the last couple of years have illustrated that rather effectively, and he's doing his best chamberlain impression...

This post was edited by fender on Jul 3 2022 12:48pm

Once again: it only takes losing 1 in 40 or 50 of its voters for the GOP to become shut out of power at the federal level. Not every GOP voter is a hardline partisan or a MAGA-hat who's willing to sacrifice democracy to own the libs. The GOP coalition still contains a decent chunk of "soft" voters who can be alienated if they go too far. It's literally been over a generation since the last time the GOP won the tipping point state in a presidential election by a margin of more than 2.1%.

The fact of the matter is that there are only approximately 36 million registered Republicans, and hardline Republicans are treated with disdain by the majority of independent voters.

Are there Republicans who'd like to ban abortion outright, no exceptions? Probably. Are there Democrats who'd like to ban abortion outright, no exceptions? Probably.

Neither party has the votes it needs to enforce their policies. Both parties require the will of the independent voter to push their agenda. Is it possible that the will of the independent voter in some states is an outright ban on any form of abortion, including that involving rape, incest, or non-viable pregnancies? Maybe. However, those laws will likely be short-lived, if passed, due to the fact that it's a radical position in no way supported by the majority of the independent voters. It's political suicide to support such things.

The SCOTUS has a narrow scope: Assess the Constitutionality of laws and mediate disputes between the States. The 9th and 10th Amendments are very clear about that which is not outlined in the Constitution. It falls to the power of the States. Roe was not a law, and never was a law. It was not passed by elected officials. It was a decision that violated the Constitution, removed the Rights of the people and the States to decide for themselves. Dobbs v Jackson was not an "activist" decision, it was the correct decision. Fender's attempts to paint Americans, even "pro-life" Americans as somehow "imposing their will" is nonsensical.

If some States pass laws allowing abortion up to the point of birth (such as my State), that's fine. That IS the will of the people of that State. That IS democracy in action. Don't like it? Move. Unwilling to move? You clearly don't dislike it that much. Likewise, if other States choose to outlaw it entirely, that too is the will of the people, and is perfectly fine, with the same option available. thundercock is correct though in one respect: This is not an issue people are willing to abandon their States over.

All that being said, behaving as though Roe was a "law" when laws are written by elected officials, NOT by appointed judges, simply makes fender an idiot. He has no valid points, is not in any way impacted, and simply promotes the idea of Americans murdering their own children because he hates America and desperately seeks for Germany to be the world superpower, and nobody else, by whatever means necessary.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Jul 3 2022 01:26pm

It will be fine. Irish women got around just fine for decades and we'll be sure to make exceptions when the mother's life is at risk. That is the only reasonable exception IMO. Gas being expensive is far more salient than abortion and the voters are reacting accordingly. Until the left comes up with a reasonable counterattack, I'm not scared about losing votes. I wouldn't hold my breath though because they are letting people like AOC drive the conversation.

I agree that zealots are a problem. Zealots aren't pragmatic people and are literally willing to watch the system collapse if things don't go their way. Green party supporters, Bernie supporters, MAGA, etc. don't care about electoral consequences. The issue here is that there are TOO MANY zealots and the GOP desperately needs them. The GOP will continue to be run over by zealots until they can form a new coalition.

Just to clarify: I am not saying, and never claimed, that this issue will prevent the upcoming midterms from being a red wave. The GOP will take the House. So when I'm talking about this overreach on abortion (and potentially other issues) costing the GOP, I'm thinking of the electoral long-term consequences, who holds power after 2024 and so on. Inflation will not be that high forever and the standard bearer of the other side will not always be a hapless corpse.

One area where it might already cost the GOP this fall is the Senate. The map actually favors Democrats, so factoring in the red-leaning year, the Senate looks like a tossup right now. The campaign being fought over abortion and inflation, instead of inflation alone, could easily be enough to cost the GOP a Senate seat or two.


To be fair, this is a problem on both sides (not necessarily to the same extent). Biden and Democrats would be in a far better position if they had just told the Green New Deal acolytes to shove it and embraced "drill baby drill" 12-16 months ago.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 3 2022 01:47pm

Irish women flew to England for their abortions and then went straight back. Still happens to this day in Northern Ireland

Just like most red state women will, in the future, fly to blue states to get their abortion

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 3 2022 02:12pm

first one: REEEEEing baby killing cult

second one: cause all the leftie dudes will start saying they pregnant.