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Mar 20 2020 09:35pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Mar 20 2020 10:33pm)
Economic stagnation has a price in lives as well.


So you think that the current restrictions are erring to much on the side of economic sacrifices? You think that we should have let more businesses to continue as usual, despite it meaning a faster spread rate?

To be clear, I'm not saying I disagree. I'm just making sure I understand your viewpoint.
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Mar 20 2020 09:36pm
Quote (Kayeto @ 21 Mar 2020 04:13)
There's no way to know yet whether the proper decisions have been made regarding striking the right balance between slowing the curve of infection vs. minimizing the economic impact. There's no substantive grounds on which to criticize the administration one way or the other.

It's still unknown to what extent, if any, the US health care system is going to be overrun. If it is overrun, it's still possible that there wasn't any way to prevent it from being overrun. If Hilary was president, that wouldn't mean that there would be 4 times more hospitals than there are right now.

If Hilary had been president, her administration may have made decisions that had more economic consequences in exchange for slowing the spread. In hindsight, we may look back two years from now and criticize that strategy for being the wrong balance.

Right now, there is no objective framework to levy a true criticism at the response we've had.


i'm pretty sure that disbanding the pandemic response team, defunding the CDC, withholding crucial information, repeatedly lying about the virus and the situation, rejecting all responsibility and not displaying any kind of real leadership... are all objectively terrible aspects, no matter if your general course would be judged as right or wrong with hindsight.
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Mar 20 2020 09:38pm
Quote (fender @ Mar 20 2020 10:36pm)
i'm pretty sure that disbanding the pandemic response team, defunding the CDC, withholding crucial information, repeatedly lying about the virus and the situation, rejecting all responsibility and not displaying any kind of real leadership... are all objectively terrible aspects, no matter if your general course would be judged as right or wrong with hindsight.


Do we have any objective facts that prove that another administration would have done a better job in this situation?
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Mar 20 2020 09:58pm
Quote (Kayeto @ 20 Mar 2020 23:38)
Do we have any objective facts that prove that another administration would have done a better job in this situation?

the guy literally posted that the cdc has no funding and that the President didn’t stop travel from China/Iran/Europe way in advance, lmao, fender operates entirely outside of reality



Biden said that said restriction of travel into US was xenophobic and inefficient while Barnie offered no solution other than “we need to beat Donald Trump” as his coronavirus slogan lmfao



https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/19/neither-biden-nor-sanders-would-have-saved-american-lives-with-travel-bans-like-trump-did/
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Mar 20 2020 10:22pm
Quote (excellence @ Mar 20 2020 10:58pm)
Biden said that said restriction of travel into US was xenophobic and inefficient while Barnie offered no solution other than “we need to beat Donald Trump” as his coronavirus slogan lmfao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAdzW-mRKTk

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/19/neither-biden-nor-sanders-would-have-saved-american-lives-with-travel-bans-like-trump-did/


That's basically what I'm saying by post #1412 here.

Both sides are equally guilty of prioritizing their political rivalry over making good decisions to handle the outbreak. No matter who was in charge, that would still be true about both sides. The need to focus on "bashing the other side" prevents proper decisions from being made.

The real conflict here is between humanity and the coronavirus. A partisan narrative supports the coronavirus in the conflict.

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Mar 20 2020 10:33pm
Quote (Kayeto @ 21 Mar 2020 04:38)
Do we have any objective facts that prove that another administration would have done a better job in this situation?


you know you don't have much to stand on when your best 'argument' is 'well, other administrations might just have been similarly or even more incompetent - we just don't know for sure because it's hypothetical'.

i mean, that excuse covers literally everything anyone could ever do. an extreme example: if trump killed 100 million americans, you could say the same: 'we don't have any "objective facts" that hillary wouldn't have killed 200 million - checkmate. i am very intelligent.'

again, that's just a piss poor 'excuse', when common sense clearly suggests this was handled terribly...
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Mar 20 2020 10:35pm
Quote (fender @ Mar 20 2020 11:33pm)
you know you don't have much to stand on when your best 'argument' is 'well, other administrations might just have been similarly or even more incompetent - we just don't know for sure because it's hypothetical'.

i mean, that excuse covers literally everything anyone could ever do. an extreme example: if trump killed 100 million americans, you could say the same: 'we don't have any "objective facts" that hillary wouldn't have killed 200 million - checkmate. i am very intelligent.'

again, that's just a piss poor 'excuse', when common sense clearly suggests this was handled terribly...


common sense suggests that the handling of this case so far has been exactly average (relative to expectations). It's exactly what I'd expect from people who are products of this political system.

This post was edited by Kayeto on Mar 20 2020 10:36pm
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Mar 20 2020 10:58pm
Quote (Kayeto @ 21 Mar 2020 00:22)
That's basically what I'm saying by post #1412 here.

Both sides are equally guilty of prioritizing their political rivalry over making good decisions to handle the outbreak. No matter who was in charge, that would still be true about both sides. The need to focus on "bashing the other side" prevents proper decisions from being made.

The real conflict here is between humanity and the coronavirus. A partisan narrative supports the coronavirus in the conflict.

yeah that was a well said post

gone are the days of this country rallying around each other in a time of crisis unfortunately.
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Mar 20 2020 11:00pm
Quote (Kayeto @ 21 Mar 2020 05:35)
common sense suggests that the handling of this case so far has been exactly average (relative to expectations). It's exactly what I'd expect from people who are products of this political system.


while i agree that a certain level of incompetence is always to be expected, repeatedly spreading misinformation and lies, disbanding the pandemic response team, and refusing to accept ANY responsibility, and not showing even the semblance of competent leadership, is certainly not merely a result of the system, but political failure. you can't tell me that you seriously think obama for example would have acted that way...
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Mar 20 2020 11:05pm
Quote (fender @ Mar 21 2020 12:00am)
you can't tell me that you seriously think obama for example would have acted that way...


I seriously think that no matter who was in charge, the decisions they made would have prioritized political power rather than protecting the population. Naturally, these misguided values would lead to a certain level of incompetence. Exactly which degree of incompetence any person would have displayed is really splitting hairs, and we don't have any real information to go on in order to have that hair-splitting conversation. Most of it is speculative and hypothetical.

I will say this though: If our health care resources get overrrun to the same degree that Italy's did, then the result would have been the same if Hilary had been elected in 2016. Even though that claim is hypothetical and speculative, I feel confident in making it.

That is my best attempt to answer your question.
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