You’re lionizing democrats and calling them brave while simultaneously absolving them or their policy consequences. Choose one. I’m not blaming them I’m jus pointing to the obvious that actions have consequences. When you kill off pipelines, when you raise epa standards, when you want to go balls deep with the Paris accord, green new deal, ESG initiatives, etc that has consequences.

There’s a debate to be had in saying it’s all worth it but it’s dishonest as fuck to pretend that these actions and signaling mechanisms won’t have an impact on oil companies and their future investments.

i didnt call the democrats brave, at least not that i recall, i called the republicans cowards.

when a morally right choice is made and it causes morally wrong consequences you blame the morally wrong. the morally correct group is context, the morally wrong group is at fault.

you hide behind platitudes like "well of course CEOs did the wrong thing" in order to absolve yourself for never even bothering to bring them up as morally wrong despite constantly bringing up Biden and the democrats.

the democratic platform has hardly been done well, its full of all kinds of issues, but at least its morally right. i used to think that meant something to posters like you, but it doesnt. it used to mean nothing to me, but now it does.

you're still stuck with a gap, democrats have signaled, but not done nearly the damage in legislation to garner the response oil companies have employed. we're still the world's #1 producer of oil, and we will be for some time. they've still raised prices beyond the scope of the inflated price of the dollar, all while not re-investing which u think serves your narrative, in fact it just makes it worse. you're just another coward who points the finger at the loud morally right party while ignoring the silent morally wrong party. its because of idiots like you that our kids and grand kids will be left a worse world, because calling out the morally repugnant isn't "required" because their behavior is implied. morally corrupt birds of a feather flock together.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Aug 2 2022 06:49am

Such vitriol lol, I guess when you’re not able to hold your own in a discussion you feel threatened and resort to insults, sad.

Lol at labeling one political party the objectively morally wrong. No wonder you can’t follow complex causal factors and instead eat up dumb shit about greedy corporations being the reason oil prices are up so much.

Party platforms are always full of lofty goals. Striving for the "morally right goal" is irrelevant when you can't offer any kind of feasible path to this goal, and it can turn to outright shit when you overlook or ignore the collateral damage your policies cause on the way.

At first glance, the Sri Lankan government trying to get rid of eco-unfriendly fertilizer in 2021 seemed like the "morally right choice". It still led to hunger, mass impoverishment and destablization of their society because it was a pipedream from the get go.
Another example is Germany's energy transition. The German governments trying to transform their electricity generation to renewables was the morally right choice. In the end, it still led to the highest electricity prices in the world, put Germany's energy security at risk, destablizes the entire European grid, strengthened the geopolitical position of a villain like Putin* and ends with coal power plants being restarted as well as poor third world countries being thrust into chaos because we're buying up all the LNG on the global markets. The high energy prices and low reliability might also well lead to energy-intense industries moving away from Germany/Europe to places like Asia or Latin America, where they will be fueled with fossil energy and operate on much lower ecological standards and oversight.



*Our transition to renewables increases our dependence on natural gas because its the energy carrier of choice for the backup power plants.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 2 2022 09:09am

Ive held the discussion by myself raising factors you've failed to even address other than with platitudes. you're the one who drones on about the issues of one side only, while ignoring the errs of your side. i'm perfectly happy to break down the issues that the democrats have, but their fumbles have been in the morally right direction. the right is nearly all fumbles in the wrong direction morally. what's left? a value judgement that those doing the right thing morally with poor execution beat those that do the morally wrong thing, regardless of the execution of the morally repugnant. you dont get brownie points for being efficiently immoral, you do get them for being inefficiently moral.

its simple, corporations are using the signal of the end of fossil fuel consumption in america to fleece the american consumer. they're inflating prices well beyond dollar inflation, they seize on their own mistakes such as pipeline failures and delays or oil tanker spills to do this as well. a war in ukraine starts, which is at best only partially Biden's fault, and they raise prices further than the demand scarcity dictates. and smooth brains like yourself can only talk about "biden and NATO bad, we had to expect Putin to kill millions and oil companies to scalp us so we should have just not tried to combat climate change and russian expansion of influence because......(checks notes)....iraq war so we bad too".

--
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No.

Operating rig count is a tangible number. Refining capacity is a tangible bottleneck. Those are not things you can bullshit, if it was you'd have the US government writing Exxon, Chevron blank checks to pump instead of going to the Saudis. You have no idea what you're talking and in one breath you're saying oil companies decided to not re-invest in long term oil because of moral reasons but then turn around and say it's about maximizing profits that's why prices are up tremendously. What I'm talking about is common knowledge to people familiar with the industry and if you bothered to do even minimal research you'd see it's not my take but literally what they are saying.

Chevron CEO, a month ago:



https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/06/05/chevrons-ceo-says-no-more-us-oil-refineries-what-s/

It has nothing to do with morality. If large cap oil producers would be assured that these investments wouldn't be a waste, you'd see refineries being built, they don't though so it'd be irresponsible management to simply dump this money.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Aug 2 2022 04:13pm

if an oil tanker crashes in the gulf, carrying oil that would have been refined into gas several months later and delivered to the consumer several months later, does the price of gas instantly go up or remain the same until that expected gas which legitimately requires a price increase was scheduled to be delivered?

i'm not sure why or even if you're implying im suggestion oil companies should reinvest into rigs and refineries. i'm not.

US oil production pre-covid was around 13,000 barrels a day, during covid it took a massive dive down to about 9,700 barrels per day, it has since climbed back up to the near peak level of 11,600 barrels per day with no real sign of stopping.

take away? we're at a near peak level of US oil production, and likely heading towards all time high levels should the trends continue. without covid we'd never have dipped and would be even higher than early 2020 levels. Joe Biden isn't stopping oil production, we are #1 and on an up trend. we have been since trump was president.

the price of oil increasing markedly isn't wholly explained by the 13k to 11.6k decrease in production. nor is production an issue. meaning that a lack of reinvestment (read costs) combined with near all time high production means the gas price out stripping the inflation index generally carries with it a level of price increase simply for profit to capitalize on the real world factors associated with a price increase (Ukraine war, Russian sanctions, etc).

to make it as simple as i can for you as you seem very confused i'm not saying the Biden administration carries no responsibility, nor that the democrats carry none for their signaling. all im saying simply is that big oil is ramping prices up on the back of general inflation to make even more money than what supply/demand justify. u can call that duty to the shareholder, and it is in fact a way to maximize profit, it's just also incredibly shitty to do. odd that you'd even bother to argue given that you've stated several times that of course corporations will maximize profits, then i restate how they're doing it, and you strawman me with odd bullshit while calling me ignorant.

https://www.macrotrends.net/2562/us-crude-oil-production-historical-chart

This post was edited by thesnipa on Aug 3 2022 08:54am

This isn't how macro-economics works. The demand is far out stripping supply and as a result the price is rising. Big oil can maybe skim a few more pennies but price will always be a function of the price/demand equilibrium for commodities that are this important and liquidly traded.

It's the pivot to be anti-fossil fuels by many governments including ours that is in part driving these prices so high because you have a disincentive on a global scale to invest in oil production long term. As the Chevron CEO said it pretty clearly, no oil major (not in the west at least where anti-fossil fuel movements are most fervent) will dump money into 10+ year projects to grow output when it's not economical because their product will be shunned. It doesn't matter that we're close to getting back to peak production right now when you look at the fact that demand is much higher than it was 3, 4 years ago. If demand grew by 10% and but supply remained flat or actually shrunk on a global scale, just because we're producing as much as we did a few years back doesn't somehow mean we're doing all we can or could have. If demand is growing for example at 10% but supply is flat versus lets say 3 years ago, then the price has to rise.

Corporations will maximize profits and look for longevity. What's happening now is they are squeezing and giving back in the form on dividends rather than re-investing because they realize they are in a secular decline industry. That secular decline is not being driven by business or lack of demand but rather by government mandates, pivots and signaling. Which brings me back to my original point. It's not republicans that were pushing for the go green stuff. It's always been the progressives. So we should be honest. If the democrats want to take credit for caring about the earth and ousting fossil fuel usage, then it's only fair to take ownership of what is the biggest causal variable that led to the large oil companies to not build refiners or ramp up long term rig counts.

"demand is up", source: Chevron CEO.

i have no doubt it's up from when lockdowns happened, and i have no doubt it's up in 2nd and 3rd world nations that can't afford gas economically at the current prices, i have a lot of doubts that it's rising steadily in the US and Europe with the emergence of EVs in personal vehicles and public transit. IMO they're selling cheaper lower quality gas to 2nd and 3rd world nations to build the next generation of consumer countries for petroleum products while passing along the costs of this to 1st world nations that demand premium fuel.

as to the democrats needing to own the lack of oil rigs/refineries in the US being newly built, why wouldn't they? that's their stated plan. unless they're on a stage in Oklahoma surrounded by oil industry workers ala HRC's west virginia coal minder blunder.

if u have sources explaining the breakdown on a demand increase i'll read them, im not going to take the CEO of chevron's word for it.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Aug 3 2022 01:42pm