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#141
Jan 29 2022 07:31pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Jan 29 2022 07:21pm)
You know if you lead off with "He's a POS pervert who shouldn't be trusted" and then went into a legal analysis you wouldn't be accused of defending pedophelia.

But that part of your argument is conspicously absent, because you don't really care that he's shitty, you care about playing defense for your team.


The fact you think throwing stones at a pillar symbolizing the devil is necessary, is small minded. I don't care about making irrelevant arguments, I don't obsess over the moral character of each actor in a story and pass judgment on their merits. What happens to this guy and whether he's innocent or guilty is truly irrelevant to me, what matters is the facts of the law and how its applied. My own opinions aren't terrible relevant. For example, I think someone with a signature like yours is a sexual deviant and pervert, but I don't care about you at all. Its still striking that in this thread where I've discussed how personally I'd like to raise the age of consent, you spam pseudo kiddie porn on a randomized sig.

I think one of the fundamental tenets of civil libertarianism that seems to be completely lost on society is that its possible to simultaneously think something is wrong and detestable, and not think you need to imprison everyone who is wrong. If someone is engaged in something disgusting and wrong, but obeying the law, trying to redefine the law and twist it enough to lock them up isn't the proper recourse, because you just wind up debasing the law for everyone, innocent and guilty alike. I don't think we should lock up everyone who watches anime, just because I find them disgusting.
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#142
Jan 29 2022 07:37pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jan 29 2022 05:20pm)
I think its readily apparent that he paid the 19 year old to facilitate his sugar daddy relationships by finding willing girls. The distinction between what constitutes dating vs prostitution, or matchmaking vs pimping, is the crux of the issue. The sugar daddy sites exist by exploiting that ambiguity to serve as something that is not explicit prostitution, but matchmaking with an implicit expectation of men who give gifts and girls who give sex. Resolving that ambiguity to call it prostitution is a legal challenge that involves setting the criterion defining it by a precedent like this one. And if those criterion are so wide and reckless that they don't distinguish between normal relationships with gifts involved, and sugar daddy pseudoprostitution, then what you wind up with is a legal code that criminalizes the normal lives of normal people.

And that's what's at issue. If the prosecutors manage to set a precedent like this, they can charge an 18 year old that takes 17 year old on a date to the movies and throw him in federal prison for life with no parole. The feds could charge a couple of 25 year olds for crossing state lines to buy jewelry from the mall on a date. States could charge them even if they didn't cross state lines. And what's the safeguard against that? Prosecutorial discretion? Create precedents that say the government can arrest anyone for anything and give them the most draconian sentences possible, and then trust the government not to abuse it? When the very case this is premised on has the government very blatantly intervening for political purposes.


My understanding is that he met the 19-year-old on Seeking Arrangements, and that the minors were largely recruited by her via Snapchat and Instagram--and the 19-year-old was paid for each minor she recruited.

As for your hypothetical, that is unlikely to ever be a situation worth worrying over, particularly given the fact that many states have Romeo and Juliet clauses to their age of consent such that an 18-year-old can have sex with a 17-year-old and that statutory rape laws don't come into effect until the adult is (in many cases) 24 months or older than the minor.
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#143
Jan 29 2022 07:38pm
Quote (addone @ Jan 29 2022 04:58pm)
yes female gold diggers who deprive older money abled white men of their money knowing fully well they cannot resist temptation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kf1oGXks5g


You do realize that shit is fake af lol
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#144
Jan 29 2022 07:43pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jan 29 2022 07:37pm)
My understanding is that he met the 19-year-old on Seeking Arrangements, and that the minors were largely recruited by her via Snapchat and Instagram--and the 19-year-old was paid for each minor she recruited.

As for your hypothetical, that is unlikely to ever be a situation worth worrying over, particularly given the fact that many states have Romeo and Juliet clauses to their age of consent such that an 18-year-old can have sex with a 17-year-old and that statutory rape laws don't come into effect until the adult is (in many cases) 24 months or older than the minor.


But again, the precedent being set here is that of "giving gifts without an explicit quid pro quo can be declared a commercial sex act"
That criminalizes relationships regardless of age. That means relationships between two 30 year olds can be declared prostitution, letting them be arrested for crossing state lines under the Mann act or under any state's that use the same definition

In this case, without that definition, the house of cards falls down. If its not a commercial sex act, its not sex trafficking, and federal statute's don't apply, which reverts it to state law, where the age of consent is 16. A Romeo and Juliet clause doesn't apply to any of that. Either its prostitution and its illegal, or its not prostitution and its legal. The accomplice acting as a madame/pimp just incriminates herself in that scenario, because it would remain prostitution even if she wasn't involved. She's sort of a red herring to that legal analysis, because he could have just found girls directly via Seeking Arrangements and be in the exact same scenario.
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#145
Jan 29 2022 07:46pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jan 29 2022 05:43pm)
But again, the precedent being set here is that of "giving gifts without an explicit quid pro quo can be declared a commercial sex act"
That criminalizes relationships regardless of age. That means relationships between two 30 year olds can be declared prostitution, letting them be arrested for crossing state lines under the Mann act or under any state's that use the same definition

In this case, without that definition, the house of cards falls down. If its not a commercial sex act, its not sex trafficking, and federal statute's don't apply, which reverts it to state law, where the age of consent is 16. A Romeo and Juliet clause doesn't apply to any of that. Either its prostitution and its illegal, or its not prostitution and its legal. The accomplice acting as a madame/pimp just incriminates herself in that scenario, because it would remain prostitution even if she wasn't involved. She's sort of a red herring to that legal analysis, because he could have just found girls directly via Seeking Arrangements and be in the exact same scenario.


I don't think anyone believes this case is setting such a precedent--aside from those who believe it's some kind of cover-up over Ilhan Omar.
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#146
Jan 29 2022 07:48pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jan 29 2022 05:43pm)
But again, the precedent being set here is that of "giving gifts without an explicit quid pro quo can be declared a commercial sex act"
That criminalizes relationships regardless of age. That means relationships between two 30 year olds can be declared prostitution, letting them be arrested for crossing state lines under the Mann act or under any state's that use the same definition

In this case, without that definition, the house of cards falls down. If its not a commercial sex act, its not sex trafficking, and federal statute's don't apply, which reverts it to state law, where the age of consent is 16. A Romeo and Juliet clause doesn't apply to any of that. Either its prostitution and its illegal, or its not prostitution and its legal. The accomplice acting as a madame/pimp just incriminates herself in that scenario, because it would remain prostitution even if she wasn't involved. She's sort of a red herring to that legal analysis, because he could have just found girls directly via Seeking Arrangements and be in the exact same scenario.


Goom is the type of guy that would believe that because the john left the money on the dresser instead of handing it to the prostitute no cash exchange took place.
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#147
Jan 29 2022 07:52pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jan 29 2022 07:46pm)
I don't think anyone believes this case is setting such a precedent--aside from those who believe it's some kind of cover-up over Ilhan Omar.


But its right there in the facts of the case. They have defined a sugar daddy relationship to be a commercial sex act because things of value were given by a man to girls he had sex with, without purporting to establish an explicit quid quo pro.
And so we've come full circle after 15 pages right back to the point at the start, that there is an entire nebulous spectrum of human social interaction that governs economics and relationships, power imbalances and implicit expectations, which cannot be easily resolved into dating vs prostitution. Which is why laws against it aimed for distinct and unambiguous quid pro quo transactions, enforced by police setting up sting operations with money changing hands. When the government starts digging into that murky territory and deciding what is permissible and what is not, they're in the thorniest patch of legislating morality.

If all the government has to show to establish prostitution is that person A gave a thing of value to person B in proximity to them having sex, the wild applications of that should be obvious. Its not some precedent to set so lightly for the expedience of one prosecution
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#148
Jan 29 2022 08:34pm
Quote (ChocolateCoveredGummyBears @ Jan 30 2022 02:38pm)


You do realize that shit is fake af lol


Doesn't change the fact gold diggers exist and there is plenty of them out there. I don't see many news on charging them with prostitution and money extortion practices
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#149
Jan 29 2022 08:54pm
what's the difference between prostitution and pornography, a video camera?
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#150
Jan 29 2022 09:00pm
Quote (MildSambal @ Jan 29 2022 06:54pm)
what's the difference between prostitution and pornography, a video camera?


Porn is acting, and people in the scene aren't exchanging sex for money. They're being paid to act out sex.
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