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Dec 24 2021 07:25am
Quote (Skinned @ Dec 24 2021 07:19am)
Cause of death wasn't fentanyl overdose, get over it.

Back on topic, I do hope the judge gives the most lenient sentence possible in this case. Looking at things on a case by case basis and not within a meta narrative of liberty vs policing it seems like a legit work mistake, like a nurse missing a decimal point on a medicine draw. People make mistakes at work and when you work in a high stakes environment some work mistakes lead to deaths. I don't think I have any, but I have seen people make mistakes that have led to death.

What happened was manslaughter, because the act itself fits the description, but it definitely looks like a work mistake. I in no way believe at all that she pulled out her pistol intentionally while pretending to believe she had a taser. I don't think she really knew she shot the guy until the guy told her that she shot him and her first reaction was an oh fuck type reaction.

I'm not a police apologist, and I'm not a fan of qualified immunity, but for the record I don't view this transaction as police brutality, rather a serious work mistake that has ended and ruined lives at this point. An actual tragedy.


I was surprised he got the full conviction. I knew manslaughter was a slam dunk, as did pretty much every reasonable poster here, but I wasn't sure how they'd find on what his specific intentions were.

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Dec 24 2021 07:26am
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Dec 24 2021 07:28am
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Dec 24 2021 07:10am)
Yeah, I was wrong about the "as long as he would have been alive one second later" claim. I was being hyperbolic. You don't need bruises on a neck when your patient has an egg shell skull, which is what your claim rested on.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Dec 24 2021 07:23am)
Floyd had an eggshell skull. He probably would have died later, but the cause of his death in that moment was Chauvin's knee. It is obvious based on the preponderance of evidence, and the only way you can argue otherwise is by stretching all of your arguments to their absolute breaking point.

I feel like I've made my point to pretty much every observer. You're stretching every argument to its absolute breaking point. Even Chauvin's lawyers knew he would get manslaughter. Cops do not plead out when they have a strong case like you are saying they do.



To loop back to the beginning, what you do need is evidence that action was a causal factor at all before you can establish it as the sole proximate cause or the but-for cause with no interceding causes or a substantial co-cause or even an acceleratory cause for that matter. Even for the lowest bar of causation, you'd still need some evidence that the action had an effect. And notably, the Chauvin case involved no physical evidence of that. No indications of any force used at all in the autopsy, and the absence of any of the telltale markings that would be present if even a moderate amount of force was used, let alone the deadly force needed to kill someone. Floyd was turning his head and talking unimpeded, and clearly breathing. There was evidence against their case, and none for it. So the state had to construct the goldilocks theory of "just enough force to deprive floyd of air, but not enough to leave a mark". But as I have stressed, this is a theory in spite of evidence, one not supported by any evidence, only invented to explain a narrow path between pieces of evidence that exclude the far more probable scenarios. And that's where we started this.

Causation needs evidence, just like actus reas and mens reas and harm. Although to be honest, 'harm' is a pretty easy one in a murder trial, except I guess cases like Jimmy Hoffa. As long as you have the body...

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Dec 24 2021 07:25am)
I was surprised he got the full conviction. I knew manslaughter was a slam dunk, as did pretty much every reasonable poster here, but I wasn't sure how they'd find on what his specific intentions were.


I on the other hand wasn't surprised. Its like the Potter case here. For the state's argument to work at all, you need to embrace the sheer absurdity that using a taser- not a gun- was already an illegal and justified criminal assault on wright. Which only a moron could rationalize, because its so plainly obvious to any sane person that a fleeing dangerous criminal trying to drive away with cops partway into his vehicle is every justification required to deploy a taser. But Minneapolis is an entire city of morons, its Ilhan Omar's district

This post was edited by Goomshill on Dec 24 2021 07:31am
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Dec 24 2021 07:31am
Quote (Goomshill @ Dec 24 2021 07:28am)
To loop back to the beginning, what you do need is evidence that action was a causal factor at all before you can establish it as the sole proximate cause or the but-for cause with no interceding causes or a substantial co-cause or even an acceleratory cause for that matter. Even for the lowest bar of causation, you'd still need some evidence that the action had an effect. And notably, the Chauvin case involved no physical evidence of that. No indications of any force used at all in the autopsy, and the absence of any of the telltale markings that would be present if even a moderate amount of force was used, let alone the deadly force needed to kill someone. Floyd was turning his head and talking unimpeded, and clearly breathing. There was evidence against their case, and none for it. So the state had to construct the goldilocks theory of "just enough force to deprive floyd of air, but not enough to leave a mark". But as I have stressed, this is a theory in spite of evidence, one not supported by any evidence, only invented to explain a narrow path between pieces of evidence that exclude the far more probable scenarios. And that's where we started this.

Causation needs evidence, just like actus reas and mens reas and harm. Although to be honest, 'harm' is a pretty easy one in a murder trial, except I guess cases like Jimmy Hoffa. As long as you have the body...


And now you're being dishonest again. Damn, we were doing good for a while there.

We have a medical examiner testifying as an expert witness to the cause of death, video of Chauvin being on him, and more. You are applying an evidentiary standard for strangling somebody. Not an evidentiary standard for somebody with an eggshell skull.

Like I said, you have to stretch every argument you made to its absolute breaking point (and actively ignore the evidence presented).

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Dec 24 2021 07:31am
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Dec 24 2021 07:34am
Quote (HeLiCaL @ Dec 24 2021 02:47am)
meanwhile Michael Byrd, cop that *intentionally* murdered Ashli Babbit was never even charged

globalist american empire 2021


Ashli was kind of re****ed. A mother with a newborn attending a messy protest and trespassing?
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Dec 24 2021 08:18am
Goom should be a lawyer
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Dec 24 2021 08:34am
Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 24 2021 08:18am)
Goom should be a lawyer


He'd certainly be a zealous advocate, no matter how damning the facts might be.
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Dec 24 2021 08:36am
Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 24 2021 09:18am)
Goom should be a lawyer


When I am Theocratic Dictator, he will be my AG.

Quote (Goomshill @ Dec 23 2021 06:30pm)
So to review for the people who don't understand the law:

Committing an unconscious mistake that results in death is not manslaughter unless you made prior decisions that directly created the risks.
If you make a driving mistake and kill someone, its not criminal if you had been obeying all the laws, driving cautiously and responsibly up until the moment of that unconscious mistake.
If you were on your phone, or drinking and driving, or speeding, or running red lights- it means you made the conscious decision to engage in reckless behavior that created the risks of the mistake, thus the unconscious mistake is manslaughter.
Mens rea has to exist for it to be a crime, but mens rea doesn't have to be the intention to kill someone- that would make it murder.

For the state to convict Kim Potter of 1st degree manslaughter required them to prove that she killed Daunte Wright in the commission of a serious crime. They charged that her decision to use a taser constituted assault, and thus it didn't matter that the fact she used a gun instead was an unconscious decision without intent, what mattered is that by deciding to use a taser on Daunte Wright in the first place, she was committing a serious crime, and thus the unintentional death of the victim of her serious crime constituted 1st degree manslaughter.

So understand that difference. The state proved to a jury that Kim Potter was illegally trying to use a taser, and that even if she had used the Taser as she intended and Daunte Wright was never killed, she should still have been convicted of aggravated assault and battery and sent to prison for years. Defense counsel Earl Grey provided a very poor defense for this where he tried to explain these matters of fact and law, tried to put out the logical holes and catch 22's in the state's arguments and their use of prejudicial evidence. He gave his speeches like his audience were law students. The prosecutors got up and put on displays of emotional family members with nothing material to the case, just crying, then made their arguments about how cops can't be trusted, cops stick up for each other, cops are lying bastards, all cops are bastards, etc. A very blunt use of naked prejudice by the prosecutors, counting on a jury of randomly selected Hennepin County residents to live up to their reputation as the most prejudiced, anti-cop county in America. As long as Kim Potter was wearing a uniform, they'd convict her of anything the prosecutors slapped at her


I can't help but notice that they always resist.

How did the world get this blind and stupid?

This post was edited by EndlessSky on Dec 24 2021 08:42am
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Dec 24 2021 08:38am
Quote (EndlessSky @ Dec 24 2021 08:36am)
When I am Theocratic Dictator, he will be my AG.


Tiny manlets would never have enough charisma to be a dictator.
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Dec 24 2021 08:39am
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Dec 24 2021 03:38pm)
Tiny manlets would never have enough charisma to be a dictator.


Google Adolf Hitler

Why are you always wrong?
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Dec 24 2021 08:53am
Quote (EndlessSky @ Dec 24 2021 07:36am)
When I am Theocratic Dictator, he will be my AG.



I can't help but notice that they always resist.

How did the world get this blind and stupid?



My thieving raping murdering child is a victim! Ya know who doesn’t die from police most of the time? PEOPLE WHO DONT COMMIT FUCKING CRIME!

Don’t blame the bear you walked into the woods loud and covered in meat. This guy might as well be ruled suicide by cop because he was a punk and an anarchist with only selfishness and greed.
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