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May 27 2021 10:13pm
Quote (duffman316 @ May 28 2021 11:50am)
Growing up I thought it was normal to not take things that don't belong to you. I was shocked to find im surrounded by terrible people, all of whom have knowingly taken things from others at some point in time.

All theft is unjust no matter how small or how much you're starving. It's just a question of whether you're willing to accept doing things that are terrible to maintain a desirable standard of living. I can sympathize with the motivations but that doesn't mean I'd permit or condone it.


I disagree.
Ownership whilst others are starving is more unjust than theft.
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May 27 2021 10:57pm
theft is taxes gg no re f u all
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May 27 2021 11:05pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ May 27 2021 10:49pm)
Thanks for posting this, because it gives me an excuse to ramble.

For most of human history it was accepted that the poorest among you were the public's responsibility. In biblical times it was accepted that the poorest got to eat from the fields for free, and it was an ultimate sin to deny the hungry traveler who came to your door. One of the most common myths in basically every human society is exactly this, where Zeus or some other major deity pretends to be an old person and asks for shelter for the night, and curses the person who declines, or rewards the one who does it. This is pretty common across all cultures.

I don't often buy into the idea that we're declining as a species, or that we're going towards idiocracy, but I think the attitude you just displayed (which is not something I am judging you specifically for) has become far too common and shows that we have declined as a species in a hugely significant way.

To say it isn't just to take a piece of bread if you are starving, to me, demonstrates a massive decline in humanity, and it's one that will prevent us from advancing much further if we don't fix it. Our progress as a species is and always has been based on our capacity to care for and support others in their time of need. The first evidence of human civilization is a femur that was broken and reset and healed. There was no guarantee that person's leg would heal properly, and no guarantee they would ever be productive again. Yet it was done. That is what separates us from all the other animals. It's the most fundamental thing that enables society. The capacity to care for those who currently can't care for themselves.


if you were the judge deciding the case of r v dudley stephens (1884) what would your ruling be?

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May 27 2021 11:09pm
Quote (Plaguefear @ May 28 2021 12:13am)
I disagree.
Ownership whilst others are starving is more unjust than theft.


i once worked part time at a place where the employer regularly committed wage theft asking employees to clock out and keep working and we also had one employee who stole the cash from our inventory
they can both be wrong and one does not excuse the other
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May 27 2021 11:16pm
Quote (duffman316 @ May 28 2021 12:05am)
if you were the judge deciding the case of r v dudley stephens (1884) what would your ruling be?


"The following day, with no prospect of rescue in sight, Dudley and Stephens silently signalled to each other that Parker would be killed. Killing Parker before his natural death would mean blood to drink. Brooks, who had not been party to the earlier discussion, claimed to have signalled neither assent nor protest. Dudley always insisted that Brooks had assented. Dudley said a prayer and, with Stephens standing by to hold the youth's legs if he struggled, pushed his penknife into Parker's jugular vein, killing him.[13]"

This, to me, is what would push that from acceptable to unacceptable, i.e. murder. If they had all agreed to draw lots and killed one after drawing them or if somebody had sacrificed themselves, then I would say it was a dire situation but not something necessarily immoral.



In ther same wiki article it has

Saint Christopher case
In the early 17th century, seven Englishmen in the Caribbean embarked on an overnight voyage from Saint Christopher Island, but were blown out to sea and lost for 17 days. During this time, starving, they cast lots to see who would sacrifice his own life for the others. The lot fell to the man who had suggested the scheme, and he consented to his subsequent killing. His body sustained the rest until they made their way to Saint Martin. They were returned to Saint Christopher where they were put on trial for homicide. The judge pardoned them, their crime being "washed away" by "inevitable necessity".

Which outlines this. I don't disagree with the rationale.
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May 27 2021 11:16pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 27 May 2021 23:18)
Lazy poster is lazy. Read better

all that privilege and you cant handle several sentences. probably scrambled your brain - learn to read and use taxpayer dollars better

Quote (duffman316 @ 28 May 2021 01:05)
if you were the judge deciding the case of r v dudley stephens (1884) what would your ruling be?

he’d rule in favor of higher taxes and refuse to pay them. the referenced case is irrelevant

This post was edited by excellence on May 27 2021 11:18pm
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May 27 2021 11:24pm
Quote (duffman316 @ May 28 2021 03:09pm)
i once worked part time at a place where the employer regularly committed wage theft asking employees to clock out and keep working and we also had one employee who stole the cash from our inventory
they can both be wrong and one does not excuse the other


Yes it does, if you are having your wages stolen and stealing them back it is 100% justified.
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May 27 2021 11:26pm
Quote (duffman316 @ May 28 2021 12:09am)
i once worked part time at a place where the employer regularly committed wage theft asking employees to clock out and keep working and we also had one employee who stole the cash from our inventory
they can both be wrong and one does not excuse the other


Disagree. If you are being stolen from then stealing it back is not theft, especially when it would require far more resources as a proportion for you to prosecute for wage theft compared to their defense of it, assuming it was a large company.
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May 28 2021 12:24am
Quote (Plaguefear @ May 28 2021 04:13pm)
I disagree.
Ownership whilst others are starving is more unjust than theft.


That's a very loaded statement and on the surface is straight up retarded. Because it assumes that ownership is bad. Guess ill be taking all your gaming gear cause its unjust to own things.

So unless you want to unpack that gona assume dealing here with a jack is a dull boy
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May 28 2021 12:39am
Quote (addone @ May 28 2021 01:24am)
That's a very loaded statement and on the surface is straight up retarded. Because it assumes that ownership is bad. Guess ill be taking all your gaming gear cause its unjust to own things.

So unless you want to unpack that gona assume dealing here with a jack is a dull boy


It doesnt assume that at all. You read into a whole bunch of stuff that isn't in his post.
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