very well may not have been if this didn't reach national news

this is the type of case that should be dug through for justice but without this coverage very often has not in case after case

hard to get a conviction even with all eyes on the case and obvious wrong doing

damn near impossible when it's only local news and involving a cop

It sounds the delay on charging her with manslaughter might have been because they were seeing if they could collect enough to crank it up to a murder charge. Been hearing some people complaining about the opposite, that the delay was indicating some sort of leniency.

This post was edited by Kayeto on Sep 11 2018 07:29am

A narrative the far lefties dont like is that police firings, charges, and convictions have risen markedly from the Ferguson effect. While they should be celebrating the fact that grass roots movements are having an effect on criminal justice reform without the need for legislation they are instead continuing the narrative that cops are never held accountable. It could be argued that cops aren't held accountable enough, yet, and therefore the continued pressure (read:lying/ignorance of reality) is a mechanism to ensure the change happens. But it can't be argued against* that cops are now less safe in their positions than they were, even if we look back only a decade.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Sep 11 2018 07:59am

You mean only a decade to about 5 years before BLM?
Well fucking obviously. 'Never' is a strong word. Obviously cops are held accountable occasionally. But even a marked increase can be insignificant. 1% to 2% is a 200% increase... but it's still only 2%.

I'd like to see the actual numbers though.

This post was edited by Scaly on Sep 11 2018 09:02am

that cops were "never" held accountable is a common narrative, illogical as it is. It wouldnt be noteworthy if it were so incredibly popular as a buzzphrase.

There are multiple studies on the ferguson effect with regards to officers being less likely to shoot, data collection on that is obviously a nightmare, so the data comes out to a lot of surveys and interviews backed by regional data from precincts that collect data above and beyond the state or national requirements (which admittedly aren't very good in terms of study).

You can look for studies on specifically the officers convicted, but you'll have to dig through a massive pile of bullshit from sources like Vox and Huffpost which always present the subject as something like "last year there were around 1000 fatal police shootings nationwide and only 80 prosecutions" without any data on which shootings were deemed justified by state/federal investigations.

Add on to that the issue of prosecutorial over-charging due to public pressure. We've seen it in Milwaukee, Baltimore, and New York in recent history. Perp dies and the public demands angrily that the prosecutor go for murder1 charges. the officer walks free because the defense has an easy time arguing the crime doesnt fit the definition. Officer is let go but free for what should have been a manslaughter charge. There are plenty of articles on the prosecution rates raising, but again they're always titled or framed "but convictions remain rare" without saying anything about over-charging.

The sad truth is many left minded CJ reform advocates are just as ignorant about the situation as right winged opponents of CJ reform. they dont understand the system, and dont know how to game it for their gain. the good news is public pressure leads to more prosecution, if not conviction, and prosecutions lead to firing more often than non-prosecutions. In terms of numbers for a study however using the 1000 or so fatal cases is silly, far too wide of a filter. The good news is that means u can study a smaller number more effectively, such as the 100 or so shootings that BLM targets and protests. Of which prosecutions have been numerous.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-police-idUSKCN0SK17L20151026

decent articles, bit old-ish data but basically mirrors a lot of the points i raised.



heh, spoken like a true lawyer.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Sep 11 2018 09:26am

Most leftists would say that while progress is good, not enough has been made, and that continuing the pressure of BML and Ferguson will result in more progress towards the goal of racial equality and safety under the purvey of police officers, which has yet to be reached.

I agree with a few caveats. One being that most leftists aren't actively involved with BLM activities. If a shooting happens in their city they will attend vigils and protests, however they aren't involved physically unless it's close to home. Although they do support the general goals and actions of BLM, and no i'm not talking about any riots or any such things. The second being that BLM could achieve goals faster by being more pragmatic. It hurts to see a cop that killed someone charged with something that only nets him 5 years in prison. But a cop in prison is off the force, off the streets, and cant be a cop when he gets out. The goal of BLM should be to get as many cops off the force that shouldnt be there as possible, by any means necessary. When instead it seems to be maximum punishments in each individual case, personal justice is all too often the sole narrative, when it should be a more meta approach. Lastly the structural bias in the courtroom against blacks (read:poor people) will never change until we fix the public defenders office, having spent time in one i can vouch they are understaffed ramshackle messes, sparsely populated with full time employees, mostly filled with probono lawyers taking the cases for tax breaks that are apathetic, and there is next to no budget to hire private investigators to find evidence (perhaps the greatest tool defense lawyers have).

This post was edited by thesnipa on Sep 11 2018 10:33am

You answered your own question

Now that it is national news it will be impossible to find a jury

Agreed entirely, but the layperson cannot think long-term. In the age of Twitter and instant-gratification, we have lost what little ability we once had to think strategically about issues, especially ones so strongly driven by raw emotional response.

indeed, i mock the right often for their "lets wait for the facts" talk. but if we're being honest we often get sold on murder charges long before the report is even released.