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#141
May 16 2010 01:33pm
Okay, so here's the map off of Wiki:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Macedonia_%28disambiguation%29.png

What a complicated situation. >_<

From what I can make out, there is a group of people living in the Greek part of the region outlined above that, much as the Lebanese do with the Phonecians, identify with the Macedonians that conquered most of the known world under Alexander. They speak a Slavic language and are related to their neighbors to the north in the Republic of Macedonia.

Like pretty much everyone else in the Mediterranean, they have a claim to their land that probably goes back hundreds of years, extended to thousands by their cultural identification with the original Macedonians under Alexander. So, like pretty much everyone else in the Balkans after the Ottoman Empire dissolved, they wanted independence and self-determination as their own small nation-state. However, this being right after WWI, recognizing small nation-states based on ethnic and cultural boundaries wasn't in vogue.

So for the next couple decades, these Aegean Macedonians had a dream of national sovereignty that looked like it could be realized by the KKE. (The Greek Communist Party.) However, that didn't pan out, and... well, you guys know part of the rest. I'll get to that after I visit my Grandma.
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#142
May 16 2010 02:06pm
Quote (eGc-CrusadeR @ May 16 2010 08:30am)
you are tottaly idiot, what are you talking about ^^ ?

Aegean macedonians are Greeks and speak the Greek language...This fyrom crap  its  slavic race is a mix from Albanians/bulgarians and i dont know what other shit anyway, for sure they CANNOT be called macedonians.

Bogie160, you are a damn retard wich supports his low knowledge so hard... you really dont have a clue...


I'm sorry, but you're putting personal bias in before your own understanding.

When Greeks and Slavic Macedonians refer to "Aegean Macedonians" they are normally referring to two different things.

The FYROM calls itself Macedonian, no, they are not descendants of Ancient Macedon, and no, they are not Greek. Understanding this, it isn't a huge jump to recognize that these same Slavic Macedonians also call their ethnic brothers in Aegean Macedonia as "Aegean Macedonians". Those ethnic Slavic Macedonians in the are who consider themselves "Macedonian" also refer to themselves as such. They are Slavic speakers who represent a minority of that population.

I don't know what you'd call them (Slavophone Greeks?), but that isn't relevant. I had to use terminology to explain the differences between groups on a complex issue and I did so.

You need to calm the fuck down with your rampant Greek Nationalism. It's cool, but when you're misunderstanding people for using terminology you just plain don't understand, you've gone too far.
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#143
May 16 2010 03:33pm
Back from Grandma's!

Alrighty, to pick up where I left off...

Their gamble having failed, many Aegean Macedonians packed up and fled the country. They were replaced by other Greek citizens, including a most interesting sub-group.

You see, back during the attempted genocide of all Christians in Turkey (Actually, what would you call it? Christians aren't exactly a race.), many people from the ancient Greek colonies in Asia Minor fled the Ottoman Empire/Turkey and came to be refugees in Greece. These Greek refugees had to go SOMEWHERE, correct? And what better place to live than the recently vacated homes of the war-torn province of Macedonia (because of the Greek Civil War between the usual communist/capitalist suspects in the late 40's/early 50's) that needed to be rebuilt?

Those Aegean Macedonians that stayed behind in Greece ran into new problems. It is apparent to me now that in order to minimize separatist sentiment to prevent another war, the Greek government decided to take away the Macedonians' cultural differences from regular Greeks by force, thereby eradicating their national identity and any reason for there to be a separate state at all. I assume something similar happened with the Thracians as well.
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#144
May 16 2010 03:36pm
Quote (catkaboodle @ 16 May 2010 16:33)
Back from Grandma's!

Alrighty, to pick up where I left off...

Their gamble having failed, many Aegean Macedonians packed up and fled the country. They were replaced by other Greek citizens, including a most interesting sub-group.

You see, back during the attempted genocide of all Christians in Turkey (Actually, what would you call it? Christians aren't exactly a race.), many people from the ancient Greek colonies in Asia Minor fled the Ottoman Empire/Turkey and came to be refugees in Greece. These Greek refugees had to go SOMEWHERE, correct? And what better place to live than the recently vacated homes of the war-torn province of Macedonia (because of the Greek Civil War between the usual communist/capitalist suspects in the late 40's/early 50's) that needed to be rebuilt?

Those Aegean Macedonians that stayed behind in Greece ran into new problems. It is apparent to me now that in order to minimize separatist sentiment to prevent another war, the Greek government decided to take away the Macedonians' cultural differences from regular Greeks by force, thereby eradicating their national identity and any reason for there to be a separate state at all. I assume something similar happened with the Thracians as well.


Genocide doesn't have to be about a race, it's an acceptable term for trying to wipe out a religion as well.

And yeah, it seems like you've got a very solid grasp on the topic. Just watch out for Greek rage now that you've shown you understand what's going on. :P
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#145
May 16 2010 04:32pm
See, like I said, there are a lot of ethnic Greeks in the Macedonia province now. And they identify as Macedonian the same way I identify as Texan or you identify as whatever state/province/region you're from. So of course they're confused! They consider themselves Macedonians and the Slavophones as, well, something else I guess.
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#146
May 16 2010 10:18pm
Quote (Sparda13 @ 16 May 2010 19:30)
of course what u say is true....but there clearly is no relation to slavic origin people....since they came near that regions much later than the time of phillip ii
so why argue about stuff that are so apparent?


history changes many things
just have a look at france and germany, both trace their roots as nations back to the frankish empire
you have many places (especially) in germany which have reference to the franks
just take those cities like frankfurt or especially the county of franken (franconia)
the latter hasn't had any frankish population for centuries (prior to mass migrations due to wwi and wwii)
so, should one now start a civil war about the use of the name 'frank' or perhaps another war between france and germany?

btw, who can guarantee that the ancient macedonians (when the name was initially given) had anything to do with the greeks?
from other sources there could be a relationsship between the original macedonians and the geto-dacians
which in turn could be related to (or actually be a) celtic people
as said, the pre-history of the region is pretty 'muddy' still
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#147
May 17 2010 02:09am
Quote (bogie160 @ May 16 2010 08:06pm)
I'm sorry, but you're putting personal bias in before your own understanding.

When Greeks and Slavic Macedonians refer to "Aegean Macedonians" they are normally referring to two different things.

The FYROM calls itself Macedonian, no, they are not descendants of Ancient Macedon, and no, they are not Greek. Understanding this, it isn't a huge jump to recognize that these same Slavic Macedonians also call their ethnic brothers in Aegean Macedonia as "Aegean Macedonians". Those ethnic Slavic Macedonians in the are who consider themselves "Macedonian" also refer to themselves as such. They are Slavic speakers who represent a minority of that population.

I don't know what you'd call them (Slavophone Greeks?), but that isn't relevant. I had to use terminology to explain the differences between groups on a complex issue and I did so.

You need to calm the fuck down with your rampant Greek Nationalism. It's cool, but when you're misunderstanding people for using terminology you just plain don't understand, you've gone too far.


Thats correct, i call them Fyrom, its the official name after all and it will be untill United Nations take a new desicion but untill then i call them fyrom

Fyrom didnt even exist during the 40's and 50's, if they claim themselves the name of Macedonia where were they during the World War 2 ? simply enough, we fough for our freedom, for our land and they didnt even exist, the only thing that they can claim is their only existance, nothin more.

This post was edited by eGc-CrusadeR on May 17 2010 02:12am
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#148
May 17 2010 03:57am
Quote (eGc-CrusadeR @ 15 May 2010 12:14)
Macedonians was ONLY GREEKS, after all the capital city was in Pela and Pela is in Greece, even now you can go and see it by yourself,

This fuckin FYROM or whatever is NOT macedonia,  after all i am from Greece and i live in Macedonia, its just a state of Greece , as Thrace, as Main Greece, as Peloponisos, as Hypiros but its Greek, this fuckin minority of Fyrom is just a piece of shit, nothin more.


yes i aggree


and wtf you all want?? because you are dont have idea about all this and saying macedonia and all this shit..??

macedonia is state of greece and it is with greek people

and alexander the great was 1st greek and 2nd macedonian LIKE we can say for someone from america he is american from vegas alexander is greek from macedonia OK???

your s...d i...t f...ot american president george bous said SKOPIA IS MACEDONIA

the bast,,rd MACEDONIA IS GREEK AND NOT SKOPIAN

ST...D AMERICANS STOP SAYING WHAT EVER YOU WANT WHEN YOU DONT HAVE ANY IDEA ABOUT ALL THIS

AND WHO THE HELL YOU THINK YOU ARE ALL OF YOU OR YOUR PREVIUS PRESIDENT TO SAY SKOPIA IS MACEDONIA? DID YOU SEE ANY GREEK SAYING AMERICA IS INDIAN OR ANY OTHER SHIT LIKE THIS???

AND AT LEAST WE DONT EVEN CARE FOR WHAT YOU SAY.. FOR US YOU ARE NOTHING.. GREECE>>>> ALL

EVEN OUR FLAG >> EVERYONES ELSE FLAG


THE 9 LINES IT HAS IT MEANS E-LE-YTHE-RIA-H-THA-NA-TOS THIS MEANS FREEDOM OR DEATH
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#149
May 17 2010 04:03am
Sorry but ex president Bush didnt even know where Greece was :)

Ofcaurse he is not forced to know since Greece is a small country with no concerns but he left his sad comment. Who was behind his statements ?
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#150
May 17 2010 04:33am
For all you who say that Skopia/Fyrom whatever is Macedonia I just have to say that you have no clue of what you are talking about.
Do you know a term called hmmm... let's see.. how's it called....??? Oh yes! "HISTORY" ??? Of course you don't since you talk shit like that.


Sad but true.

V
V
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This post was edited by 3m3Rg3 on May 17 2010 04:34am
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