If you compare Biden in the first 2020 debate vs. this one, the difference is incredible. That's not just because he had one good night and one bad night. He had the abilities in 2020, he no longer does. The idea that he's been a dementia patient for 4 years is right-wing propaganda.

4 years in presidency and they look like +20. Trump will be 79 lol

He was visibly, but very slowly declining back in 2020. The Right blew it out of proportion back then, sure. But since then, he has shown signs of a much quicker and more dramatic aging process on countless occasions. Which isn't that surprising, the late 70s and early 80s are the age range in which a lot of folks enter the phase of rapid decline. Not being open to recent, undeniable and easily accessible evidence, just because the other side had exaggerated four years ago, isn't a smart stance.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 4 2024 09:00am

Well that's why my position is optimal, I acknowledged his decline when it was right to do so.

No, it's not. Biden's condition caught you by surprise although it shouldn't have. The info about his decline was readily available, out in the open, for many months, but you didn't recognize it because of your preconceptions.

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Generally speaking, the right time to realize developments is when there is growing and deepening evidence for them, rather than when they reach their climax, reality slaps you in the face and the negative consequences of said development have become irreversible.

The right time to realize a drought is when the plants show the first signs of withering in the middle of growth period, rather than when cattle has to be slaughtered because there's no more food for them.
The right time to realize that a country is losing a war is when the enemy made multiple crucial breakthroughs on the front in a row, rather than when their air force starts bombing the capital unimpeded.
The right time to start looking for a new job is when your former bosses start cashing out after the merger, not when your new supervisor announces in the cafeteria that cost cutting measures are imminent.
The right time to pivot your political campaign is when you're slipping in the polls months out from the election, not two weeks before election day when you're trailing by 20 points.

And the right time to acknowledge that Biden was going down the drain was at some point during the first quarter of this year, when he began looking noticeably more awful and confused during his public appearances than before, and when his team began reducing his public interactions with the press to an absolute minimum. Decision-makers in the Democratic party should have realized this in time and pressured him to bow out back then, so that a proper primary could take place and pick a suitable successor. Or settle on Kamala behind closed doors, have Biden endorse her and begin to build her up with the help of friendly media for many months.

Now, it's essentially too late and the failure to act in time will presumably cost Democrats a presidential race which was eminently winnable.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 4 2024 12:57pm

I simply disagree. The debate was a shock to many people who follow politics closely. People knew Biden was old and had declined some since 2020, but it wasn't obvious how much so until the debate happened. If you're in the bubble where the only Biden you see are doctored clips from the right, I suppose it wouldn't be a surprise.

This post was edited by IceMage on Jul 4 2024 05:15pm

Doctored clips? Seriously?! So what's your theory of the case then? That the clips of Biden looking lost and extremely geriatric in the weeks and even months preceding the debate, say at the G7 summit in Italy, were "doctored", that he was actually still in fine shape at the time, but then suddenly declined by a huge amount shortly before the debate?

Or could it be that Biden had already been in a continuous and sharp decline for at least half a year and that the geriatric clips which we saw during that timeframe were simply... real?



It's really quite astounding how you were duped by a complicit media which had been hiding Biden's condition from the public, but still believe that you are in the right and its the others who are the "propaganda victims".

And again, I feel like I'm one of the only people to watch Biden in the debate and say... meh. This is all just dogpiling from the media right now. Joe Biden's performance wasn't catastrophic, it wasn't horrible. He clearly lost and was clearly not on point, but it was more like having mayor quimby on extra drowsy capsules and less like having abe simpson on stage. For a guy with a long history of garden path sentences and verbal flubs, he only trailed off incoherently once, for a few seconds. He was losing on substance as he let Trump walk over points like abortion where Biden should have capitalized, but nobody cares because he lost on optics just by rasping and swaying.

Everyone who hasn't purposefully closed their eyes to it has seen that Biden is showing his age and looking geriatric for years now, and the best thing the Biden campaign did in 2020 was use the pandemic as an excuse to not have him show his face in public more than once or twice in the whole election cycle. Trump is nearly as old but I guess a lifetime of teetotalling and banging porn stars and walking golf courses keeps you agile. There's no denying that Biden looks and talks like he's much frailer than my 94 year old Grandpa ever was, but Trump does not. And this debate wasn't a revelation, just pushing what everyone already knew out in public where its undeniable. And considering that, he didn't really collapse on stage. And I mean that in a literal sense, because that's what a catastrophic performance would be for someone that doddery, he didn't shit his pants, he didn't ask to sit down, he wasn't wearing a catheter (at least that we could see). He was able to go back and forth with Trump for 99% of the debate and keep talking mostly coherently.

this was just one straw on the camel's back that made the media collectively flip the switch from denying that something is occurring to admitting it and leaning into it and piling onto it. Even if Biden's performance wasn't really that bad, it nudged the boulder over the hill just enough to roll down the other side. And everyone is acting like its doomsday. Same outlets that a few weeks ago were unironically printing articles about how everyone who meets with Biden remarks on his {DNC will fill in this line with characteristics praising Biden's physical fortitude}, and this week he's going to have his hands and legs nailed to a walker.

You mean pedophile joe with dementia vs trump, right?