Trump Jr Tweeted 1 billion... Btw why only talking about maggo largo ? Isn't the Trump Fraud (taxes & loans fraudz) applying to alot, if not all, of his New York properties ?

You could come up with all kinds of values and its pretty subjective and impossible to get a firm number, but $350-1000 million is definitely in the ballpark while $18-26 million is obviously not. You can arrive at half a billion by multiplying out the property against its residential lots nearby alone, but you can arrive at a billion if you estimate that the parcel kept together and with its many other value adding factors makes it double. I mean, waterfront property alone is always worth significantly more, at least 50%. Mar a Lago uniquely gets both sides of the island's shores, while those other lots we've been comparing it to are just nestled inland and rely on driving to your ocean access. The lot across from mine right now is in the middle of the woods with no shore, and its worth about 11% of the dollar per acre of my lakefront property (9x more on the GIS listings), and even that is inflated because it has that 'nearby lake access'. Square parcels of swamps and woodlands with no nearby lakes a few miles away go for 3% of that value (33x). So when we're talking about ranges of property values on oceanfront, particularly in a highly popular thin island strip off the coast, its pretty easy to see how much value that can add.

We're talking about mar a lago because the judge granted a summary judgment, which means he believes the evidence in the case is so overwhelming it doesn't even merit going to the jury to hear it. Even though the judge's argument was blatantly and comically wrong.

The year that Mar-a-Lago agreed with the appraiser about its $27 million valuation, Trump and the company listed it as worth $490 million on financial documents given to banks, according to the New York Attorney General.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-mar-a-lago-1-8-billion-own-company-said-it-was-too-high/

So you don’t understand why the people paying taxes on the property would agree upon a very low valuation? I sold a house a few years back. The tax appraiser valued the property at 112,000$. I sold it for 145,000$. Should I be worried about being charged with fraud? My asking price was 160.

Depends if he estimated it before inflation or not. Thus you are late by a factor of 5x at least. You can twist it as much as you want, the abuse is blatant, gross, perfectly fits with Trump's style, and... You know it right ?

Why do we even need to exchange on this ? The guy played it like an obese pig, and can't say "Im not taking any responsibility" this time...

I don't think you understand. I'll be charitable and reiterate. All kinds of property in Florida, and a few other states, have wildly different actual market values compared to assessed values used for property taxes. And this is intentional, and the product of a law passed in 1995 ("Save Our Homes Act") that says that assessed values of property can only raise each year by a maximum of 3% or the CPI (consumer price index, an inflation rate), whichever is lower. Or 7% for non-homesteads. If a property is held for a long time, as Trump has held Mar-a-Lago, and it continues to appreciate in value by far more than 3% per year, but the taxable assessed value only raises by 3% per year, then the two numbers diverge. For example, Florida properties rose by about 15% average last year, far far above the 3% maximum rate for assessment. Trump bought it for $10 million some 38 years ago, and we can assume it was assessed at or less than that value, which puts an upper bound at 3% compounding interest of ~30 million or less assessed value today- hence the $18-26 million assessment. While in reality, that property is now easily worth $350 million minimum, more likely $500-1000 million- a massive return on Trump's investment

The reason Florida does this is because its a state where a bunch of geriatric boomers go to retire and sink their roots and live out their last decades, and they control the state government (hence, Desantis) and passed the law so that properties grandfathered in over decades would have very low property tax rates, but new developments would pay the full 'true' amount. New York has a similar law, except it simply caps property taxes directly instead of assessed values. Its hard to believe the judge in this case didn't have this explained to him, given a property broker expert from Florida testified to explain precisely why Mar-a-Lago is worth more than its assessed value- and the judge simply wrote in his judgment he was going to ignore everything the expert told him.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Sep 29 2023 05:56am

The issue is the discrepancy. When it came to paying tax Trump agreed it was worth like 26million.
When it came to using it as collateral for loans, at the same time. Trump claimed it was worth hundreds of millions.

...that's literally the point of the law. That's the whole reason the law was written, to reduce property taxes.

So nothing to worry about then?

Oh, i see what you means, exactly.It seems to be an argument for asymetric declarations.

Look, since i am not an expert like you, i think it's time to wait for a fair justice trial:


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/28/nyregion/trump-fraud-judge-appeal.html

And... Since i'm not sure the non-paywall link will stay, i'll past the full article:


Appeals Court Rejects Trump’s Effort to Delay Trial in Fraud Case


Former President Donald J. Trump had sued the judge presiding over his case, Arthur F. Engoron, aiming to pause a trial that will likely begin as soon as Monday.


Donald J. Trump’s civil fraud trial over accusations that he inflated the value of his properties by billions of dollars will likely begin Monday after a New York appeals court rejected the former president’s attempt to delay it.
The appeals court, in a terse two-page order Thursday, effectively turned aside for now a lawsuit that Mr. Trump had filed against the trial judge, Arthur F. Engoron. The lawsuit had sought to delay the trial and ultimately throw out many accusations against the former president.
The case was brought last year by New York’s attorney general, Letitia James, who says Mr. Trump exaggerated his net worth in some years by as much as $2.2 billion to obtain favorable loan terms from banks. On Tuesday, in a surprising pretrial ruling, Justice Engoron struck Mr. Trump a heavy blow, finding him liable for fraudulently overvaluing his assets and stripping him of control over his New York properties.
That decision validated the heart of Ms. James’s case, but Mr. Trump is not without options. He could still challenge Justice Engoron’s ruling and seek an emergency pause of the trial, although it is unclear whether the appeals court would consider doing so.
With Mr. Trump’s liability for fraud largely resolved, the trial — which would be decided by Justice Engoron himself rather than a jury — would resolve other aspects of the case, most notably whether Mr. Trump and his company will face a financial penalty. Ms. James is seeking to recover $250 million in ill-gotten gains.
The appeals court’s Thursday decision to allow the trial to proceed punctuated a week of brutal legal losses for Mr. Trump as he grapples with the consequences of government investigations that, aside from Ms. James’s case, have resulted in four criminal indictments.
Ms. James’s civil case will be the first government action against the former president to reach trial. Her suit seeks to cast a harsh spotlight on Mr. Trump’s braggadocio and bluster, the traits that propelled his business and political careers, but were also the twin engines of a fraudulent scheme to fabricate his net worth.
Now that Justice Engoron has found that Mr. Trump’s actions violated New York law, the question remains: How much will he have to pay?
Mr. Trump’s best hope to derail the trial was the lawsuit against Justice Engoron, which the former president filed two weeks ago. In it, Mr. Trump’s lawyers argued that Justice Engoron had ignored an earlier appeals court decision in June that raised the prospect that some accusations against the former president might be too old to go to trial.

But the appeals court on Thursday appeared unmoved, and did not address those arguments in its order. It is unclear whether the ruling by a panel of five judges completely shut down Mr. Trump’s lawsuit against Justice Engoron. Although the ruling lifted a stay of the trial, it did not technically dismiss the former president’s claims against the judge.
John W. Moscow, a former Manhattan prosecutor who has worked on fraud investigations for decades, said that the appeals court’s denial of a delay just days before the trial is set to begin was simply common sense.
“That they denied it without comment that doesn’t strike me as in any way surprising,” he said. “That’s what you would expect an appellate court to do.”
A lawyer for Mr. Trump, Christopher M. Kise, did not respond to several requests for comment. On Tuesday, he called Justice Engoron’s ruling “outrageous” and “completely disconnected from the facts and governing law.” He said that the judge ignored “basic legal, accounting and business principles.”
Mr. Trump has denied all wrongdoing. A Republican, the former president has accused the judge and the attorney general, both Democrats, of being politically motivated, and has called Justice Engoron “deranged” and Ms. James, who is Black, a racist.
At the center of Ms. James’s case is the accusation that Mr. Trump’s annual financial statements exaggerated his net worth. Mr. Trump, she said, submitted the statements to banks to obtain favorable loan terms.
Mr. Kise, in turn, has argued that Mr. Trump could not have committed fraud because the banks made money off the loans and the former president never missed a payment.
But lawyers from the attorney general’s office have countered that, under the powerful state law allowing them to bring the case, they did not need to show the fraud had resulted in financial harm. Justice Engoron agreed in his Tuesday opinion, and sanctioned each of Mr. Trump’s lawyers $7,500 for continuing to advance arguments they had previously made.

His order also left the future of Mr. Trump’s business in New York hanging in the balance.
While his decision ordered the dissolution of the legal entities Mr. Trump uses to control his New York assets, it has yet to be determined whether the order will force Mr. Trump to sell his properties — including Trump Tower, his golf club in Westchester County and the towering office building at 40 Wall Street in the heart of the Financial District. Instead, the judge might allow an Independent monitor to control the properties for some time while Mr. Trump continues to own them.
The contours of the Tuesday order are likely to become clearer after the trial, at which Ms. James’s lawyers will seek further punishment as they attempt to convince Justice Engoron that the former president should pay the $250 million fine and be permanently barred from running a business in New York.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Sep 29 2023 06:24am