Goom is smart but is pathologically dishonest.

Don't mistake length and citations for being right. He will strategically remove inconvenient information and lie to your face about information you are both looking at.

Actually if you knew about how the law works it’s based on precedent the same that let bill go over his personal recordings he used for an auto biography which held classified information HE TOOK with him after his presidency considered PERSONAL ITEMS, same as with former President Trump with regards to these documents. Once again the espionage act does not and CAN NOT apply to a President and or former President based on executive powers.

The Presidential records act records act not the espionage act determines how the records are controlled. I could type more but you still wouldn’t get it, I can tell

https://www.judicialwatch.org/judicial-watch-clinton-sock-drawer-audio-tape-case-exonerates-pres-trump/

It sure does under the Presidential records act, and the Clinton tapes is the precedent to that. Also so are the thousands of “declassified” documents sold on the private market that are in museums and private collections.

There are multiple arguments against the espionage act applying. The PRA would supersede it if its applying to the same actions since its a newer law that overlaps on the old one. New laws always win out over old ones. And when criminal laws are vague and have contradictory statutes, only the most permissive can apply. And then beyond that, the constitutional argument that no law can infringe on a president's plenary power of authorization which given is undefined in law when applied to an administrations documents carried over in the post-presidency. I know its easy for people to immediately dismiss that argument by saying a president's powers of classification must end as soon as he leaves office, but that's not the case: A former president's prior authorizations before leaving office must continue to apply until/unless his successor chooses to overrule them, otherwise any president holding declassified material as innocuous as scribbles on a hankerchief could be retroactively labeled a criminal by his successor who declares it to be classified after-the-fact. And then that gets into the issue of Trump's claim of a standing order to declassify anything he took, against his obviously contradictory statement saying 'this is secret and I totally coulda and shoulda declassified it but didn't'. And that leads us back to the issue of infringing on a president's plenary power: If the DoJ decides which of Trump's statements apply and which doesn't, they're effectively usurping his constitutional powers retroactively. No matter how capricious or contradictory or stupid a president's decisions, they're still his alone to make.

A slam dunk case with regard to Trump, he dun fucked up. Nonetheless, it's still a blatant double standard how the FBI (and the media) aren't going harder after Biden for letting similarly classified documents lie around for half a decade in his Delaware garage (which is much less secured than Mar-a-Lago... heck, his fuckup son had access to this garage and his stuff occasionally ends up in Jersey pawn shops, only to be retrieved by their political enemies.)



The only (extremely tortured) argument I could see Trump making is that he just boasted about the classified documents in front of his guests, but that he didn't actually show the files to them - and that a mere audio tape is, by its nature, insufficient to prove otherwise. But it seems like Meadows flipped, so if Trump tries this defense, he might also be on the hook for perjury.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jun 11 2023 06:45am

Disingenuous argument, there's a clear process for retaining documents for something like a library. And that process includes the steps required to declassify a document. Even if we ignore that, section 1d is pretty clear about part of what he allegedly did wrong. Do I think he needs to get in trouble for keeping documents? No. I don't think that's the problem. The problem is everything that came after that, especially the allegations of not trying them when asked to, the allegations of sharing them, and the alleged obstruction.

NARA put out a statement on Friday that disagrees

Besides all the former presidents who went through records to separate out personal materials years later (like Obama), the court precedent pretty explicitly strips NARA of any power whatsoever when it comes to classification of documents. They have zero authority to say what Trump classified or didn't. Not to mention the bit where Trump's transition team was accusing NARA of refusing to provide archival assistance at the time- and accused them of being overtly partisan- so it rings particularly hollow for them to make that claim now. And its a schizophrenic line to take in this case, because NARA's claim is based on the PRA, and if the PRA trumps the espionage act then the DoJ's case is invalid.



Whether he calls them personal records is irrelevant, he doesn't have to tell NARA what he considers classified or unclassified, they have no enforceable powers, they can't contradict him on classification.

Bro no offense mate.
Look at your guild
And look at the thread you made.

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=101252454&f=119

Whether or not is pathologically dishonest, we can read his stuff and if I disagree with him on certain points I can have a debate with him.
And I am sure there are times we can agree to disagree.

some hopes we get a mug shot this time
Trump Indictment DAY TWO: Romney and Christie Show Their Unipartyism, etc