Bolded: post a source. Israel showing drone footage of weapons caches in hospitals is the same as cops planting coke on perps here. I want footage of hamas using hospitals/schools WITH CIVILIANS INSIDE. I dont want footage of hamas running around in a bombed out building with no civilians inside. And just to be clear, i am talking about relevant footage since special tunnel operation began. POST THE FOOTAGE

As for the US aid to israel, i have already posted the source ITT where it shows that the US taxpayer has paid for 70% of israels special tunnel operation. Seven fucking zero fam. This is an undisputed fact. Yall have a very robust military sector, but it cant produce enough armaments for a protracted war against the muslim world. I have posted almost every relevant arms package from the us to israel since this war began, and it clearly shows that you cant produce enough toys to fight a six+ front war.

Israel military sector punches well above its weight, and it does develop cutting edge technology. But you seem unable to grasp the fact that the US is seriously subsidizing your war efforts.

Ok thanks for edit, champ!

You keep repeating the same talking points without acknowledging reality. Yes, Hamas has done terrible things - no one’s denying that. But Israel isn’t some innocent victim either. You can’t bomb, blockade, and occupy people for decades and then act shocked when there’s blowback.

Israel left Gaza in 2005, sure - but then sealed it off, controlling borders, airspace, and even how many calories people can eat. That’s not freedom, that’s a siege. In the West Bank, they keep building illegal settlements, bulldozing homes, and forcing people out. That’s not peace, that’s expansion.

And let’s be real - extremists exist on both sides. Hamas says dumb stuff, yes. But Israeli ministers openly call for wiping out entire Palestinian towns. You ignore that.

At the end of the day, I support Palestinians having basic rights and freedom - not Hamas. You support Israel, but won’t admit it’s committing war crimes. If we’re talking facts, let’s talk all of them. Not just the ones that make your side look good.

And let’s not forget - Israel has total control over this war. There was a deal, phased with steps to de-escalate. Hamas released hostages. Then Israel broke the agreement and went right back to flattening what was already rubble and killing more civilians. If they wanted peace, they’d act like it.

This post was edited by FantasyWorldII on Apr 3 2025 09:28pm

Let me quickly fact check you because you are not a reliable source:

The U.S. provides ~$3.8B per year in military aid to Israel — which equals less than 1% of Israel’s GDP. CORRECT!

Israel’s defense industry is one of the most advanced and self-sufficient in the world, exporting billions in defense tech every year. CORRECT!

This isn’t a “scorched earth” campaign — it’s a war against a terrorist regime that hides behind civilians and turns neighborhoods into war zones. INCORRECT!
----- Whether it’s “scorched earth” depends on facts on the ground. Over 30,000+ people have been killed in Gaza (as of early 2025), with more than 60% reported to be women and children, and vast swaths of the strip have been flattened.
----- UN officials and human rights groups have described Israel’s assault as disproportionate, with entire neighborhoods leveled.
----- So while the intention might be to fight Hamas, the execution looks like collective punishment, which is a war crime. And a war crime, is a war crime. Regardless of anyone's feelings.

If the U.S. pulled funding tomorrow, Israel would still defend itself. INCORRECT!
----- Israel does have the capability to defend itself without U.S. aid, thanks to its advanced tech and strong economy. But for how long? Let's not forget Israel is still a small country that was not able to win many wars that it claimed it would win easily.
----- Only with U.S. aid, Israel is able to maintain military superiority without compromising domestic spending.
----- But most importantly, political and diplomatic support from the U.S. (like vetoing UN resolutions). I don't even want to go to details of how it would effect Israel, but I'm sure you can imagine.

And Hamas would still use hospitals to launch rockets. INCORRECT!
----- Israel claims Hamas uses hospitals as shields, and in some cases, the IDF has presented alleged evidence, but independent investigations have often found no verifiable proof of systematic use.
----- International bodies like the UN and Amnesty International have called on Israel to provide solid evidence—and so far, it’s been inconclusive or anecdotal.
----- Even if some militants used hospitals, it doesn’t justify destroying entire medical systems.


So you are partly correct on the aid and defense industry. But calling this a clean war and ignoring the mass civilian death toll is factually dishonest. And the “Hamas hides in hospitals” line is not proven to the level needed to justify what’s happening.

This post was edited by FantasyWorldII on Apr 3 2025 10:00pm

Extremists do exist on both sides yet Israel jails extremists who cross red lines. Hamas elects them, funds them, and follows their orders. A fringe tweet from an Israeli politician does not equal to Hamas’s official charter calling for genocide. Equating the two is lazy and dishonest.


If you support them start acting like it. Real support means calling out Hamas for using civilians as shields, killing political opponents, rejecting every peace offer
You can’t claim moral high ground while running interference for terrorists.


You said “Israel is committing war crimes.”where? Based on whose ruling? International law recognizes the right to self-defense, especially against a terror army that massacred 1,200 civilians on October 7
Israel on the other hand warns civilians before strikes and you compare it to a group that fires from UN schools and hospitals.

If you’re going to throw around “war crimes,” start with the group booby-trapping baby cribs and hospitals.


False, Israel didn’t break the ceasefire deal.
The deal was contingent on continued hostage releases and Hamas honoring terms. When Hamas refused to provide proof of life, delayed releases, and violated conditions, they broke it.
Israel resumed operations to rescue hostages and stop rocket fire not to “flatten rubble.”


Control? This started when Hamas launched a surprise massacre and dragged civilians into Gaza. Israel didn’t want this war it was forced into it.
You want peace? Then dismantle the terror regime holding Gaza hostage.


You claim to support Palestinians, but spend all your time defending the group that uses them as shields, rejects peace, and runs torture camps. If you cared about freedom, you’d start by standing against Hamas not parroting their talking points.

Dude, you’re missing the point completely. Criticizing the Israeli government or its policies doesn’t magically translate to cheering for Hamas. It’s called nuance. I can condemn Hamas’s violence and still call out Israel’s occupation, airstrikes, and policies that hurt everyday Palestinians. If you can’t see the difference, that’s on you.

You’re acting like there’s only two options: blind loyalty to every Israeli action or full support for Hamas. That’s just lazy thinking. People can - believe it or not - reject both militant extremism and heavy-handed tactics that punish civilians. It’s not that complicated.

So if you’re going to accuse me of “defending Hamas” just because I think Palestinian civilians deserve rights and basic humanity, go ahead. But it won’t make your argument any stronger. It just proves you’re stuck in a one-sided narrative that can’t handle the fact that real life is more complex than “team Israel vs. team Hamas.”

scorched earth campaign???

The “60% women and children” stat comes from Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry, which even they revised in March 2025 — removing over 3,400 names, including 1,080 “children”, after being caught falsifying data.
https://honestreporting.com/
Independent analysis shows 72% of fatalities are men aged 13–55, which is the demographic of combatants. This undercuts the claim of mass civilian slaughter.
“Scorched earth” means destruction without regard for civilians.
Israel uses evacuation notices, roof knocks, humanitarian corridors pause zones, precision strikes (where possible)

Hamas uses hospitals for HQs, schools to launch rockets, human shields

Fighting terrorists embedded in civilian zones isn’t equal scorched earth. It’s asymmetric warfare in urban terrain and the civilian toll is on Hamas for putting them in harm’s way

You admit Israel has advanced tech and exports billions then you contradicts yourself.

U.S. military aid to Israel = ~$3.8B/year
That’s less than 1% of Israel’s GDP.
Israel allocates over $24B annually to defense — most of it self-funded.
(Stockholm International Peace Research Institute - SIPRI)
Israel is one of the top arms exporters globally, with $13.1B in defense exports in 2023.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-defence-exports-hit-record-131-billion-2023-2024-06-17/

Political/diplomatic support from the U.S. is valuable, but Israel’s survival is not dependent on it. It’s endured full-scale wars and crashed its enemies before U.S. aid.

U.S. aid is helpful, not essential. Israel’s defense ecosystem is independent, innovative, and robust.

You claim Israel has no solid proof of Hamas using hospitals that’s just false.

Documented, visual proof exists for example Al-Shifa Hospital: IDF found tunnels, weapons, tech gear under the hospital, Videos, drone footage, and bodycam evidence were released.
Multiple UNRWA schools were found to have tunnels and weapons.
Red Crescent Ambulances used to transport fighters:

There is overwhelming visual and forensic proof that Hamas uses hospitals and civilian infrastructure militarily and they’ve done it for years.

Your ‘fact check’ folds under scrutiny. You accept Hamas-fed numbers as gospel, deny documented tunnel evidence, and downplay Israel’s self-sufficiency. That’s not truth-seeking that’s agenda-driven. Real war crimes start with turning hospitals into HQs, not stopping the rockets coming from them.

This post was edited by Many_Names on Apr 3 2025 11:07pm

Criticizing Israel’s policies is totally valid it’s a democracy, and no government is above criticism. But when your “criticism” starts sounding like Hamas talking points, ignores their war crimes, and spreads fake numbers from a terror-controlled health ministry, don’t be surprised when people push back. That’s not nuance that’s just running interference.

Saying “I oppose both sides” sounds balanced on the surface, but if you ignore who started this war, who hides behind civilians, and who deliberately targets innocents, you’re not being nuanced you’re just blurring the truth. Let’s deal with the full picture if we’re really talking complexity

Lol, this is such an unnecessary discussion. I am "literally" chatting with ChatGPT. Once you can create your own points, we shall continue.

This post was edited by FantasyWorldII on Apr 4 2025 06:13am

I rely on it to improve my phrasing, as English isn’t my mother tongue and I don’t want to sound offensive.

The points are all mine 👌

This post was edited by Many_Names on Apr 4 2025 06:37am

I must admit that I also use ChatGPT. To put that into context, here are 3 quotes (of over 100 quotes that I spent all day collecting from this thread!) from Many_Names and, with the help of ChatGPT i can refute them as follows:

1. "Israel is no angel but it never ever targets civilians." Hypocrisy: This statement contradicts multiple acknowledgments in the same text that civilians are being harmed (e.g., "unfortunately for them they are in our way and some of them might die"). Refutation: Numerous independent sources, including the UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and even Israeli military reports, document civilian casualties from Israeli airstrikes and military actions. The claim that Israel never targets civilians is demonstrably false.

2. "We tend to respect the rules of law. Palestinians don’t, so don’t expect me to fight with them and give them the edge. You want food and water? Release the prisoners…" Hypocrisy: Claiming to "respect the rules of law" while advocating collective punishment (denying food and water to civilians) is contradictory. Collective punishment is illegal under international law (Fourth Geneva Convention). Refutation: The UN and International Criminal Court (ICC) have both stated that blocking essential resources like food and water to an entire population constitutes a war crime.

3. "There is no such thing as PALESTINIANS. West Bank was part of Jordan, and Gaza was part of Egypt." Hypocrisy: This denies Palestinian identity while simultaneously justifying actions against them as a group. Refutation: Palestinians have a distinct national identity that predates modern conflicts. The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was recognized by the UN in 1974 as the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people. Additionally, in 2012, the UN General Assembly granted Palestine non-member observer state status, recognizing its sovereignty.

its a pity ChatGPT cant pull all those quotes directly from the thread, but im sure in a few years there will be something that can do that. note to self on page 190/558 for quotes.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 4 2025 01:03pm