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Jul 26 2017 11:28am
Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 26 2017 10:46am)
Sloppy again. That stat you keep putting out isn't accurate in this context. It found strong correlations to homelessness, low household income generally, hiv positivity, and refusal of doctors treating them.
None of which are really appliance in this context.
That's not even getting into the fact that the stat was made up of lifelong reports of attempts by adults, meaning the data is outdated in the context of modern young adults


Would you maintain that there is no causation between transgenderism and suicide? I don't think you can brush away the correlation or predictive power, so you'd have to create some alternative theory of causation and its pretty thin to correlate it to being poor or homeless or hiv positive, when the numbers don't support narratives of persecution or display similarly for gay/lesbian populations.

Quote (inkanddagger @ Jul 26 2017 10:58am)
The sunk costs of discharging people who have been serving for years, have already been through training, etc is far more.


The Obama change allowing them started in October and was recently delayed for 6 months by Mattis just a few weeks ago wasn't it?
The sunk costs are pretty limited

Quote (inkanddagger @ Jul 26 2017 10:47am)
So 2,500 people whose total cost is essentially a rounding error is a financial problem?
Yeah, Trump didn't talk to any fucking generals about this, he is using it to bargain repeal of Obamacare with the Freedom Caucus.


If you put your eggs in hoping the top brass aren't going to agree with this call you're going to be disappointed with the results.
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Jul 26 2017 11:32am
i wanna sex ivanka trump so badly...
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Jul 26 2017 11:33am
Quote (playd2smokeweed @ Jul 26 2017 12:32pm)
i wanna sex ivanka trump so badly...


pre or post plastic surgery
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Jul 26 2017 11:33am
Quote (Goomshill @ Jul 26 2017 10:28am)
If you put your eggs in hoping the top brass aren't going to agree with this call you're going to be disappointed with the results.


Oh, I am fully aware that the U.S. military's command is mainly comprised of garbage human beings who the earth would be better off without. But that's not what I am saying. I am saying Trump is lying. He negotiated a deal with repressive Republican elected officials and he's pivoting to make it look like something else.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Jul 26 2017 11:34am
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Jul 26 2017 11:37am
Quote (Scaly @ Jul 26 2017 11:10am)
What costs?


Each transgender soldier gets paid medical leave/disability and is removed from duty for their transition, paid hormonal treatments, possible paid sex reassignment surgery, then several years of counselling
To copy/paste from reddit;

Quote
Basically if you declare you are transgender, you'll get a plan set in place between you and a specialist. That plan is flexible, but basically states how far you'll transition, how quickly, etc.
While in this process of this plan, you will be non deployable, still be the gender you previously were (however command will accommodate you a needed), and constantly be evaluated for mental health.
Once transitioned to the extent of the plan, you are now given the new gender marker (and are treated exactly like that gender), are deployable again, but must continue checkups and continue taking hormones.
One issue most had with this is it's a very expensive surgery/process and effectively takes a soldier "out of the fight" for 1/4 of their contract or even more. So not only does someone else need to take their place, but Tri-Care (our health care) will take a hit.


Something like 3 weeks leave, 12 weeks disability, 24 months counselling, waiting periods before surgery

The costs are at least inordinate to soldiers serving, its hard to argue that these impose any serious readiness issue to the armed forces as a whole, when the number of transgenders is so tiny, but its also hard to argue that transgender recruits are going to pull their weight with the amount of extra resources tied up by them and special considerations they are given. They're going to huge chunk of their time being nondeployable.

I think the argument is a lot weaker when it comes to post-op transexuals, and that's where I think this policy is faulty
If someone is already done with their sex reassignment, done with their hormones or whatever and require no additional maintenance or disruption, what problems can they pose?

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jul 26 2017 11:39am
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Jul 26 2017 11:38am
if it is much more expensive to maintain trans troops, then i'm not sure where i stand
but citing a reddit post isn't going to cut it
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Jul 26 2017 11:42am
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Jul 26 2017 11:43am
Quote (Goomshill @ 26 Jul 2017 19:37)
Each transgender soldier gets paid medical leave/disability and is removed from duty for their transition, paid hormonal treatments, possible paid sex reassignment surgery, then several years of counselling
To copy/paste from reddit;



Something like 3 weeks leave, 12 weeks disability, 24 months counselling, waiting periods before surgery

The costs are at least inordinate to soldiers serving, its hard to argue that these impose any serious readiness issue to the armed forces as a whole, when the number of transgenders is so tiny, but its also hard to argue that transgender recruits are going to pull their weight with the amount of extra resources tied up by them and special considerations they are given. They're going to huge chunk of their time being nondeployable.

I think the argument is a lot weaker when it comes to post-op transexuals, and that's where I think this policy is faulty


hmmm, wouldnt this also create an easy out for soliders who dont wanna get deployed? claim to be transsexual, chose the least invasive form of treatment where nothing is cut off, take some hormones for a couple of months and you have a "get out of vietnam"-card on your hands. not saying that a lot of soldiers would go down this path, but depending on how non-invasive the treatment can be, it should at least be considered.
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Jul 26 2017 11:44am
Quote (Goomshill @ 26 Jul 2017 13:42)


reich-wing tabloid sites. can you post better links please. preferably from buzzfeed 2.0 or washington compost. otherwise your argument is null and youre a drumpf apologist who knows nothing about anything!
thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jul 26 2017 11:45am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 26 2017 11:43am)
hmmm, wouldnt this also create an easy out for soliders who dont wanna get deployed? claim to be transsexual, chose the least invasive form of treatment where nothing is cut off, take some hormones for a couple of months and you have a "get out of vietnam"-card on your hands. not saying that a lot of soldiers would go down this path, but depending on how non-invasive the treatment can be, it should at least be considered.


You'd have to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist
They tried that on M*A*S*H
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