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Jul 13 2017 09:35am
Quote (fender @ 13 Jul 2017 17:17)
you weren't "just listing things" he's done, you clearly put a spin on them and desperately included absolutely ridiculous and outright wrong talking points as "starting a conversation about healthcare", "doing something about north korea", and "being a bastion against globalisation" in order to beef it up.

how about you don't deflect so much and elaborate on some of the questions?


says fender, the master of dodging...


about healthcare: he has been criticizing obamacare since day one, and once he took office, congressional republicans have started talking about the specifics of healthcare reform. a healthcare reform that they can only hope to implement because the man in the white house is a fellow republican.
that the reforms they come up with might be disadvantageous is another story.

about north korea: trump acknowledges the problem, which is already more than obama ever did, and trump is progressively ramping up the pressure. we'll have to wait and see where this goes, but I think it's consensus in the usa that allowing north korea to obtain nuclear intercontinental missiles that can reach the american mainland is NOT a feasible option.

about the globalism thing: trump is the most high-profile and influential man on this planet who is critical of globalization; and is giving anti-globalism a voice. whether anti-globalism is the answer is, yet again, another story.
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Jul 13 2017 09:50am
Fender's posts make me sad.
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Jul 13 2017 01:15pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 13 Jul 2017 16:35)
about north korea: trump acknowledges the problem, which is already more than obama ever did, and trump is progressively ramping up the pressure. we'll have to wait and see where this goes, but I think it's consensus in the usa that allowing north korea to obtain nuclear intercontinental missiles that can reach the american mainland is NOT a feasible option.


you are the definition of "fake news" and "alternative facts", your claim is ridiculous and simply WRONG:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/26/barack-obama-warns-north-korea-over-nuclear-testing

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/us-developing-missile-shield-to-guard-against-nuclear-attack-fro/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/24/obama-response-north-korea-nuclear-tests-deal

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-04/washington-has-used-cyberattacks-sabotage-north-korean-missile-launches-years

in fact, it was obama who warned trump that north korea would be the most urgent problem he'd face:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-faces-north-korean-challenge-1479855286


same with healthcare, republicans have been bitching about obamacare since its installment, long before trump even ran for office. and the "reform" they finally came up with under trump's "leadership" (let's be honest, he doesn't have a clue, he wasn't even aware of the massive tax breaks for the rich in it, it's just his name on it) is widely opposed, even amongst his own voters and in the republican party...

and then there is the withdrawal from the paris agreemen, also a thing that not only damages america's reputation and most likely its economy and environment severely, it's also something a MAJORITY of americans disagree with...

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Jul 13 2017 01:20pm
Quote (fender @ 13 Jul 2017 15:15)
you are the definition of "fake news" and "alternative facts", your claim is ridiculous and simply WRONG:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/26/barack-obama-warns-north-korea-over-nuclear-testing

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/us-developing-missile-shield-to-guard-against-nuclear-attack-fro/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/24/obama-response-north-korea-nuclear-tests-deal

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-04/washington-has-used-cyberattacks-sabotage-north-korean-missile-launches-years

in fact, it was obama who warned trump that north korea would be the most urgent problem he'd face:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-faces-north-korean-challenge-1479855286


same with healthcare, republicans have been bitching about obamacare since its installment, long before trump even ran for office. and the "reform" they finally came up with under trump's "leadership" (let's be honest, he doesn't have a clue, he wasn't even aware of the massive tax breaks for the rich in it, it's just his name on it) is widely opposed, even amongst his own voters and in the republican party...

and then there is the withdrawal from the paris agreemen, also a thing that not only damages america's reputation and most likely its economy and environment severely, it's also something a MAJORITY of americans disagree with...


man, all those warnings and finger waggings really showed NK not to mess with nuclear weapons and intercontinental missiles and the like. it's like when President Clinton entered into the Agreed Framework for NK to not make nuclear weapons and they went and did it anyway :bonk:
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Jul 13 2017 01:34pm
Quote (excellence @ 13 Jul 2017 20:20)
man, all those warnings and finger waggings really showed NK not to mess with nuclear weapons and intercontinental missiles and the like. it's like when President Clinton entered into the Agreed Framework for NK to not make nuclear weapons and they went and did it anyway :bonk:


5 minutes, not bad. but please stick to your usual lazy memes and your hilariously ironic namecalling, political discussion clearly isn't your thing, buddy...

the development and installation of a missile shield, as well as cyberattacks against their missile program, are clearly more than just "finger wagging and warning" - and even THAT would already be more than blacky's original claim, which was that obama did not even acknowledge the threat...
i wonder, what has trump done to deserve the credit he seems to get for the north korea situation from his cultists?
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Jul 13 2017 01:36pm
Quote (fender @ 13 Jul 2017 21:15)

releasing some generic bad words and warnings in a press statement, followed by determined inaction, is not acknowledging a problem, its deferring it to his successor.

those alleged but not offcially confirmed cyberattacks were apparently ineffective, and obama apparently didnt follow up with other measures. so he basically was like "I tried, it didnt work, lets move on to other things."




I'll grant you that he was acknowledging the NK problem when his final term in office had ended and it was time to pass on the pile of his unsolved problems to trump.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 13 2017 01:37pm
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Jul 13 2017 01:44pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 13 Jul 2017 20:36)
releasing some generic bad words and warnings in a press statement, followed by determined inaction, is not acknowledging a problem, its deferring it to his successor.

those alleged but not offcially confirmed cyberattacks were apparently ineffective, and obama apparently didnt follow up with other measures. so he basically was like "I tried, it didnt work, lets move on to other things."




I'll grant you that he was acknowledging the NK problem when his final term in office had ended and it was time to pass on the pile of his unsolved problems to trump.


wow, don't ever let FACTS get in the way of your precious narrative... that is beyond pathetic...
if clear warnings, cyberattacks against the missile program, and the development of a missile shield is "doing nothing"... then what has trump DONE to justify that "point" he got regarding NK from you?

This post was edited by fender on Jul 13 2017 01:45pm
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Jul 13 2017 02:00pm
Quote (fender @ 13 Jul 2017 21:44)
wow, don't ever let FACTS get in the way of your precious narrative... that is beyond pathetic...
if clear warnings, cyberattacks against the missile program, and the development of a missile shield is "doing nothing"... then what has trump DONE to justify that "point" he got regarding NK from you?


warnings are just words. obama was known for not backing up his words. remember his red line in syria? ^_^

the cyberattacks are alleged, not confirmed. if they took place, they clearly didnt work. if obama had acknowledged the NK issue, he would have initiated other measures to stop their nuclear program after this attempt was futile. but he didnt, which to me once again proves that he didnt take this issue seriously. or that he was aware of the timeline, i.e. that it would take NK many more years to develop working ICBMs and that the issue would therefore not get urgent during his term.

about the missile shield: did you even read the article you linked? I'll quote the relevant piece for you:
Quote
Mr Obama said that America was improving its own missile defences. "One of the things that we have been doing is spending a lot more time positioning our missile defence systems, so that even as we try to resolve the underlying problem of nuclear development inside of North Korea, we're also setting up a shield that can at least block the relatively low level threats that they're posing right now," he said



so obama essentially told that the US were readjusting or redeploying their already existing missile defence systems (from the cold war era?) to target NK (or the direction from which NK missiles would come in). this is very different from what you claim he did: "development of a missile shield". in particular, obama himself said that this shield would block the low level threat of the 2016 NK missile program. subtext: if they ramp up their arsenal, this shield isnt going to cut it.

what trump has done about NK so far? he has treated the NK missile program as an urgent threat. he was trying to sweet-talk chinese president xi jinping into taking a harder stance on NK since china is the only country which has real influence and leverage in NK. now that the chinese seem to try to sit it out, he is progressively increasing the pressure on both them and NK.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 13 2017 02:02pm
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Jul 13 2017 02:04pm
Quote (fender @ 13 Jul 2017 15:34)
5 minutes, not bad. but please stick to your usual lazy memes and your hilariously ironic namecalling, political discussion clearly isn't your thing, buddy...

the development and installation of a missile shield, as well as cyberattacks against their missile program, are clearly more than just "finger wagging and warning" - and even THAT would already be more than blacky's original claim, which was that obama did not even acknowledge the threat...
i wonder, what has trump done to deserve the credit he seems to get for the north korea situation from his cultists?

the source for the supposed cyberattacks from zerohedge: the ny slimes



Quote (Black XistenZ @ 13 Jul 2017 16:00)
warnings are just words. obama was known for not backing up his words. remember his red line in syria? ^_^

the cyberattacks are alleged, not confirmed. if they took place, they clearly didnt work. if obama had acknowledged the NK issue, he would have initiated other measures to stop their nuclear program after this attempt was futile. but he didnt, which to me once again proves that he didnt take this issue seriously. or that he was aware of the timeline, i.e. that it would take NK many more years to develop working ICBMs and that the issue would therefore not get urgent during his term.

about the missile shield: did you even read the article you linked? I'll quote the relevant piece for you:



so obama essentially told that the US we're readjusting or redeploying their already existing missile defence systems (from the cold war era?) to target NK (or the direction from which NK missiles would come in). this is very different from what you claim he did: "development of a missile shield". in particular, obama himself said that this shield would block the low level threat of the 2016 NK missile program. subtext: if they ramp up their arsenal, this shield isnt going to cut it.

what trump has done about NK so far? he has treated the NK missile program as an urgent threat. he was trying to sweet-talk chinese president xi jinping into taking a harder stance on NK since china is the only country who has real influence and leverage in NK. now that the chinese seem to try to sit it up, he is progressively increasing the pressure on both them and NK.


alleged by the ny slimes of all things :rofl: the very publication Comey himself called #fakenews. if the nyslimes prints that water is wet, one should still check to make sure.
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Jul 13 2017 02:06pm
Quote (fender @ Jul 13 2017 07:23am)
republicans blocked a vote on a reasonable replacement for a RECORD time and stole a scotus seat. trump nominated a judge who will ensure money doesn't get out of politics and corporations will dictate policy for decades to come. so much for his promise to give "the people" all the power.



nop. the electoral college "did" that. what "bad stuff" are you particularly glad about she wasn't able to implement?



wrong. neither did obama "ignore" the north korea problem, nor did trump do anything significant to solve it.



trump's withdrawal from this agreement is a promise towards his fossil fuel donors he kept. the desperate "ideologically charged / inefficient" spin to make this somehow look positive is nothing short of pathetic. he also deregulated fossil fuel and gutted the EPA, so much for that apologist narrative - he's a moron who thinks climate change is a chinese hoax (!) and that coal and oil are the future - meanwhile he not only seems to be indifferent to the possibly devastating environmental consequences (which will in all likelihood cost multiple times as much to prevent / prepare for / mitigate / fix than what a shift in focus on renewable energy would cost) of this decision, he also risks tens of thousands of future proof workplaces and technological advancement in the alternative energy industry...



strange how he didn't withdraw from nafta, which according to him was the "worst deal ever" - just another change of mind there i guess. glad about the tpp though so i won't complain.



wrong, that discussion has been going on for ages. the only thing he got in motion in that regard were some eyebrows when he expressed his surprise about how complicated healthcare could be.



wait what now?! are you going to list every topic YOU apparently weren't aware of before trump was elected as HIS achievement regarding "getting a discussion about that in motion"?! if not, see above...



especially powerful was his contribution at yad vashem: SO AMAZiNG + WiLL NeVeR FORGeT! but sure, it's not like israel cares about that as long as they have the US protect and sponsor their genocide...




a counter productive temporary travel ban that helps isis recruit even more idiots and that would not have saved a single american life had it been in place for the last 40 years, a travel ban that mysteriously excludes the main state sponsor of terrorism, saudi-arabia...



is he? what did he do to become that? elaborate plz.



especially juicy when family members of trump voters get deported. who cares how many of them have been productive members of society for decades, they are brown and illegal so they have to go, right? but sure, his base loves it so fair enough...



or in short: he's too stupid for diplomatic etiquette. it's not like anyone really fell for that anyway. so sure, point for trump (if you want to ignore the fact that he originally promised no more meddling in the middle east and just "taking their oil").



you mean that tax cut for the rich that even his own voters were able to identify and oppose? the "repeal" seems to be coming, the "replace" is "surprisingly complicated" it seems...
the tax reform will be more of the same, (more or less) hidden taxcuts for the rich, and a whole bunch of trickle down rhetoric...


fender quoting more people than the nazi's gutted in ww2!
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