They are not radicalized this is their culture.
Radical suppose to be something abnormal extreme… this is norm

This post was edited by Many_Names on Jan 19 2025 03:36am

Long-term conflict—marked by Israel’s occupation and military control on one hand and violent reprisals from Hamas on the other—along with land disputes, including the ongoing appropriation of land and violence against the Palestinian population in the West Bank, and the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza, often described as the largest open-air prison in the world, have deeply entrenched radicalization on both sides.

Compounding this is a fragmented education system, where curricula and social environments on both sides often reinforce enmity and perpetuate the cycle of hostility. These decades of conflict highlight why both Israelis and Palestinians have become radicalized in different ways, eroding empathy and mutual understanding. However, the power dynamics are starkly uneven, with Israel as the dominant occupying power.

Breaking this cycle requires addressing the systemic and structural causes of radicalization on both sides. Yet, given the entrenched mistrust and hostility within both societies, achieving such a transformation remains an immense challenge for the foreseeable future.

Breaking the cycle requires them changing their education system, I was never taught by anyone there demons on the other side.
When I was a kid all we dicussed was peace with our neighbors

Israel’s military chief of staff, Lieutenant General Herzi Halevi, has said he will resign in March over the failure to prevent the October 7 attack.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/21/middleeast/israeli-military-chief-of-staff-resigns-intl/index.html

And now opposition leaders are calling for Netanyahu to follow suit.

Hamas defeated the idf.

Public anger in Israel is focused on Netanyahu because many feel the government failed to protect them during the October 7 attack. Hamas did not defeat the IDF; the IDF dismantled much of Hamas's leadership and infrastructure. However, now that hostages are being released and a ceasefire has been agreed, Israelis are questioning Netanyahu's leadership. Many are frustrated and demanding accountability for the failures that led to the attack.

Gona have to disagree with you here. While the idf certainly did a good job of getting sinwar and friends, the decentralized organizational structure of hamas makes it easy to fill the void in a loss of leadership. Losing the commanders at the top was an eventuality that they have been preparing for and practicing for decades.

The daily military tempo of Al Qassam,Al Quds,Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades,Mujahideen brigades,Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades and friends have been active at a very steady pace all throughout the war. Hamas ranks have been filled by new recruits from gaza and the arab world through the philadelphi strait; this is a main reason why this war has dragged on for so long.

Hamas' infrastructure is literally untouched as its all underground. They post videos of their domestic production of arms/munitions in their tunnels, and the Israeli airforce has never come close to bombing it out. All the destruction you see in gaza is civilian infrastructure.

The only way israel was ever going to defeat hamas was by starving them out ir occupying gaza indefinitely till they succumbed to the pressure.

But israel blinked first. This is just my opinion but i do feel that hamas got the upper hand in this engagement much like the IRA did against Britain. Im sure many will disagree with this however

TL:DR Version: Hamas is not a terrorist organization. They are a government. Like every government, there is a chain of command that includes every member, down to the lowest Janitor. Killing top leadership simply creates new top leadership.

You're welcome.

Id also point out that although Trump forced this deal on Netanyahu, he also lifted the sanctions on settlers in the west bank and lifted the restrictions on the arms shipments to israel imposed by biden.

This is why the IDF is currently enacting "Iron Wall" in jenin. The amount of arms that have slipped through to the west bank has been increasing at an alarming pace, so i guess the deal was that the israelis back off in gaza in return for increased security in the west bank, with uncle sam helping to thwart Iran and its proxies in the next 4 years.

Art of the deal!

A debate is boring if we all agreed with each other! To be fair to InsaneBobb, he phrased it well (apart from not explicitly identifying Hamas as a terrorist organization). The reality is that to Israelis and virtually everyone else on the planet, Hamas is recognized as a terrorist organization. However, on the ground in Gaza, they are (and will continue to be) the leaders, authority, and governing body—effectively functioning as a government. Therefore, if we consider InsaneBobb’s point, when the leadership of Hamas is terminated, the structure they have built allows for new individuals to step into those roles, filling the leadership void. This is a natural outcome of ongoing conflict and governance challenges, exacerbated by decisions such as those made by Israel, which have led to significant impacts on Gaza’s civilian population.



The deal, however bad, is better then no deal. We all know the long term ramifications of Israeli's policies, well most of us do anyway.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jan 21 2025 02:16pm

If governments can be terrorist organizations, most of them really kind of are. They're a government, supported by the overwhelming majority of their population, civilian and military alike, and they're so well-loved by the jihadist neighbors of Israel that the West Bank no longer holds elections because the PA knows they'd lose to Hamas.

It's very simple, really. A terrorist organization uses threats against civilians to force civilians to call for political change from their government. A government uses military means to kill their declared enemies, then uses their propaganda machine to place all the blame squarely on the shoulders of their victims.

Hamas is a government. And their declared enemies are every man, woman, and child in Israel. And their population overwhelmingly supports them. When faced with total war, the only solution is total war. Those who are faced with total war who try to follow "rules"? Are called victims.