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Apr 16 2022 02:06pm
Quote (Subwoofer @ Apr 16 2022 03:45pm)
It's their job to educate not about realities not hide children from it. You get up in arms when a young earth creationist gets angry over dinosaurs in textbooks to?



It's the problem of section 3. The vagueness of "state standards" which don't really exist.

Be like if i said "You can eat that sandwich, but only within state standards for sandwich eating". Those don't exist so you effectively don't get to eat a sandwich.


What the bill does

It does require school districts to adopt procedures that "reinforce the fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding the upbringing and control of their children in a specified manner."

It does prohibit classroom instruction, not casual discussion, on "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" with children in third grade or younger, "or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

It does require school districts to notify a student’s parent if there is a change "in the student's services or monitoring related to the student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being and the school's ability to provide a safe and supportive learning environment for the student."

It does prohibit schools from "encouraging a student to withhold" such information from a parent.

It does require school districts to notify parents of each health care service offered at their student's school and the option to withhold consent or decline any specific service.

It does require that parents be allowed to access their child’s educational or health records kept by the school.

It does require the school to get parental permission before administering a well-being questionnaire or health screening to students in kindergarten through third grade.

It does require schools to respond to a parent's concerns within seven days of being notified of those concerns, and the school must resolve those concerns within 30 days. If the issue is not resolved, parents can then sue the school district or request the state Commissioner of Education to appoint a special magistrate to mediate a solution, which the school district must pay for.

What the bill does not:

It does not ban the word "gay" in school settings.

It does not ban casual discussions of topics relating to sexual orientation and gender identity in the classroom.

It does not require schools to notify parents if their child comes out as gay or transgender.

It does not require schools to notify parents of information regarding the student's mental, emotional, or physical well-being "if a reasonably prudent person would believe that disclosure would result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect."
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Apr 16 2022 02:13pm
Quote (Talmid @ Apr 16 2022 03:06pm)
What the bill does
It does require school districts to adopt procedures that "reinforce the fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding the upbringing and control of their children in a specified manner."

It does prohibit classroom instruction, not casual discussion, on "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" with children in third grade or younger, "or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

It does require school districts to notify a student’s parent if there is a change "in the student's services or monitoring related to the student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being and the school's ability to provide a safe and supportive learning environment for the student."

It does prohibit schools from "encouraging a student to withhold" such information from a parent.

It does require school districts to notify parents of each health care service offered at their student's school and the option to withhold consent or decline any specific service.

It does require that parents be allowed to access their child’s educational or health records kept by the school.

It does require the school to get parental permission before administering a well-being questionnaire or health screening to students in kindergarten through third grade.

It does require schools to respond to a parent's concerns within seven days of being notified of those concerns, and the school must resolve those concerns within 30 days. If the issue is not resolved, parents can then sue the school district or request the state Commissioner of Education to appoint a special magistrate to mediate a solution, which the school district must pay for.

What the bill does not:
It does not ban the word "gay" in school settings.

It does not ban casual discussions of topics relating to sexual orientation and gender identity in the classroom.

It does not require schools to notify parents if their child comes out as gay or transgender.

It does not require schools to notify parents of information regarding the student's mental, emotional, or physical well-being "if a reasonably prudent person would believe that disclosure would result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect."


The underlined part is the largest issue at hand. Florida has no state standard for talking about homosexuality/genders/trans people therefore it's banned in a classroom setting automatically.

This post was edited by Subwoofer on Apr 16 2022 02:13pm
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Apr 16 2022 02:16pm
Quote (Subwoofer @ Apr 16 2022 04:13pm)
The underlined part is the largest issue at hand. Florida has no state standard for talking about homosexuality/genders/trans people therefore it's banned in a classroom setting automatically.


That is not true. I don't know who told you that, but they lied to you. Here is part of the state standards.

file:///C:/Users/marsc/Downloads/3.%20Proposed%20NGSSS%20for%20Health%20Education.pdf

https://siecus.org/state_profile/florida-state-profile/



This post was edited by Talmid on Apr 16 2022 02:17pm
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Apr 16 2022 02:18pm
Quote (Talmid @ Apr 16 2022 03:16pm)
That is not true. I don't know who told you that, but they lied to you. Here is part of the state standards.

file:///C:/Users/marsc/Downloads/3.%20Proposed%20NGSSS%20for%20Health%20Education.pdf

Code
file:///C:/Users/marsc/Downloads/3.%20Proposed%20NGSSS%20for%20Health%20Education.pdf


It's weird you both downloaded such a thing and are incapable of knowing how uploading such a thing works.

You are going to have to point out the homosexuality/trans/gender parts because I don't see them.

This post was edited by Subwoofer on Apr 16 2022 02:20pm
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Apr 16 2022 02:19pm
Quote (Subwoofer @ Apr 16 2022 04:18pm)
It's weird you both downloaded such a thing and are incapable of knowing how uploading such a thing works.


https://siecus.org/state_profile/florida-state-profile/

ad hominem fallacy
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Apr 16 2022 02:21pm
Quote (Talmid @ Apr 16 2022 03:19pm)


Show me the gender/homosexuality/trans part of the state standards. Still not seeing them.
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Apr 16 2022 02:48pm
Quote (Talmid @ Apr 16 2022 04:06pm)
What the bill doesIt does prohibit classroom instruction, not casual discussion, on "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" with children in third grade or younger, "or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."


This is the part most people are arguing about, and that's not what is says.
And since the law does not care what your version of the bill says, here is what is actually says, word for word.

3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third
parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur
in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age
appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in
accordance with state standards.


As you can see, nowhere in the bill is "casual discussion" mentioned as being protected.
The wording is vague and undefined. Who decides what is age or developmentally appropriate?
Teachers are already at high risk of legal exposure and having their underpaid and underappreciated career ruined.
Now, as the law is written, they could be at risk for discussing ANY gender identities or sexual orientation. So, no families, no more husbands or wives exist, not even Mr., Ms., or Mrs. could be used.


Also, if it truly meant what you claim it does, than wouldn't that imply that there is legal protection for classroom instruction that was NOT age or developmentally appropriate for children after grade 3 or outside of the state of Florida.
Like, why would they need a bill passed if it was never ok to teach inapropriate subject matters with children in school in the first place? And why would that protection disappear after grade 3 and outside the state of Florida?
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Apr 16 2022 03:39pm
Quote (David_911 @ Apr 16 2022 04:48pm)
This is the part most people are arguing about, and that's not what is says.
And since the law does not care what your version of the bill says, here is what is actually says, word for word.

3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third
parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur
in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age
appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in
accordance with state standards.


As you can see, nowhere in the bill is "casual discussion" mentioned as being protected.
The wording is vague and undefined. Who decides what is age or developmentally appropriate?
Teachers are already at high risk of legal exposure and having their underpaid and underappreciated career ruined.
Now, as the law is written, they could be at risk for discussing ANY gender identities or sexual orientation. So, no families, no more husbands or wives exist, not even Mr., Ms., or Mrs. could be used.


Also, if it truly meant what you claim it does, than wouldn't that imply that there is legal protection for classroom instruction that was NOT age or developmentally appropriate for children after grade 3 or outside of the state of Florida.
Like, why would they need a bill passed if it was never ok to teach inapropriate subject matters with children in school in the first place? And why would that protection disappear after grade 3 and outside the state of Florida?


This law is not in isolation but within the greater standards of education of Florida. It is wrong to have secret instruction about sex to children and then hide it from their parents. Some teachers have gone way too far. We are talking about k-3rd grade. You are opposing a bill that protects children from sexual indoctrination.
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Apr 16 2022 03:44pm
Quote (Talmid @ Apr 16 2022 05:39pm)
This law is not in isolation but within the greater standards of education of Florida. It is wrong to have secret instruction about sex to children and then hide it from their parents. Some teachers have gone way too far. We are talking about k-3rd grade. You are opposing a bill that protects children from sexual indoctrination.


Got any sources for those claims? Specifically the part where you claim that teachers have sexually indoctrinated children k-3rd grade and been legally protected.
If you don't have any sources for what you're claiming, then your just perpetuating the fearmongering you fell victim to in the first place.
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Apr 16 2022 03:53pm
Quote (David_911 @ Apr 16 2022 05:44pm)
Got any sources for those claims? Specifically the part where you claim that teachers have sexually indoctrinated children k-3rd grade and been legally protected.
If you don't have any sources for what you're claiming, then your just perpetuating the fearmongering you fell victim to in the first place.


lol you aint new here
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