Quote (ofthevoid @ Apr 21 2021 12:04pm)

Dude, you keep repeating multiple times about some past conversations, idk what you're talking about. I responded solely to what you posted now. The decision came from partisan judges and whatever colorful language pundits or opponents of such laws used is irrelevant and subjective.

The premise that these laws are racist hinges on the fact that IDs cost money. The argument goes something like this:

> Republicans want to suppress black voters
>They do this by requiring voter IDs
>ID's cost money
>Because IDs cost money and many blacks are poor then this is a mechanism of suppressing votes.

But we know that IDs are free in Georgia so the whole argument falls apart. How is Georgia targeting or suppressing votes exactly with voter ID laws then?

Explain the bolded like im 5 years old.

Quote (thesnipa @ 21 Apr 2021 19:12)

this isn't correct.

the issue of voter ID laws breaks down into 3 categories:

1. cost

2. access to DMVs

3. distrust of the government

free IDs cover cost, as they should. IDs shouldnt cost anything to begin with.

access to DMVs however it does not. in many urban areas, especially as more and more DMV activity moves online, DMV availability times have been restricted. and when an ID law goes into effect the demand for just about the only thing DMVs still need to do in a physical location anymore goes sky high. old 1990s stand up jokes about wait times at the DMV become relevant. in some cases ive heard of people having to take a second day off of work because they never got called up. taking a day off of work at all is a hassle, many DMVs dont operate on weekends and only are open during normal business hours.

there's also distrust, when required to go an extra step with government identification people distrustful of the government become less likely to cooperate, and are more likely to opt out. distrust of the government is higher in black communities, and as a result ID laws cause more opt outs. it's "they trackin us" mentality.


but it doesnt really matter, the stats are clear, where ID laws are created it disproportionately pushes blacks from the voting pool. and moreso if the black community is impoverished in any real number. you, me, or anyone else can say "well just do this" regarding DMVs or whatever else. that doesnt change the stats. the stats are the stats. why is this relevant? because the lawmakers know the stats, and are acting on that knowledge. that's an intentional act of politically driven racist behavior. systematic racism. whether its systematic racism to win more races or systematic racism due to hate of black people doesnt factor into your request for systematic racism examples.

Quote (SunnyvaleTrailerPark @ Apr 21 2021 03:00pm)

Ok.

My question now is, why do Mexicans, Chinese, Russians, Japanese, Indians don't claim they have the same issues? Indian are almost black. Mexicans are not white. Chinese and Japanese are Asians.

All these people are thriving and content with their life even if they live in third world countries. Would it be because their country are made of their own races?

Quote (ofthevoid @ Apr 21 2021 12:55pm)

IDs cost money to produce, that's just a simple fact and even some of the most liberal and socialistic countries have costs with getting ID's. It costs around 50 bucks to get a pic ID in Sweden for example one of the most pointed to socialistic countries. It costs money in almost every single country in the world to produce a picture id and 99.9% of people understand that having a pic ID is basically part and parcel of living in society and no one has an issue with it.

In states like Georgia, they are going out of their way to subsidize them because unlike 99% of the world apparently some of you guys think our black populace is somehow unqualified to be able to do so.

I just don't understand why giving free IDs is not an adequate compromise here? I just find it highly suspect that in a country where people are expected to produce IDs to open a library card or go buy cigs, having to provide ID to prove your identity is all of a sudden racist (only in swing states though).

We know some level of voter fraud exists, we can argue on the rate per 100,000 but we know it exists. What's stopping me from going around and talking to my neighbors and asking them do they plan on voting? If not, I know their name, their polling location, their address, etc so I can literally show up and give them my neighbor's name and vote for them because without an ID that's totally plausible.

The biggest issue with the black voting bloc is apathy, but this is precisely a way to get around that. 'Activists' can go around collecting these names and data and basically do targeted marketing in the best of cases but in the most heinous of cases, in races that are decided by a few thousand votes i could totally see political actors finding ways to cheat just like I described with the neighbor example.

So why are we so adamant about creating this environement?

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 21 2021 01:02pm)

Rofl, what a bogus argument. Yes, Republicans try to pass voting laws which disproportionately depress black turnout because that helps them politically. But in the exact same vein, Democrats are pushing for absentee voting and oppose voter ID laws precisely because they know its politically good for them. Do you seriously believe that when Republicans push for voter ID laws and other voting restrictions, they're being evil racist scum, but when Democrats do the opposite, it is out of high-minded civic engagement (rather than partisan self-interest)?

Generally speaking, it's ridiculous how the Democrats and the media are framing a rollback of voting modalities to their pre-pandemic status as this huge assault on democracy, even going as far as calling it "Jim Crow 2.0". Due to the pandemic, voting accessibility was dramatically expanded - and it was a boon to Democrats. Can anyone blame Republicans for not wanting to permanently lose ground in the partisan battle for power due to a one-off health crisis?

Quote (SharpNips @ Apr 21 2021 02:03pm)

Translates to

“Shit that actually makes sense but I don’t want to change my mind, let me move the goal post”

Quote (SunnyvaleTrailerPark @ Apr 21 2021 03:04pm)

It's a question. Reason i said OK and moved to the next question instead of arguing with it is because it made sense in a way but brought up my next question which may point out that it could also be something else.

How are we supposed to have those conversations if we can't freely speak bout it.

Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 21 2021 02:03pm)

for me personally, i simply dont fear voting fraud enough to bother with the hassle. it exists to be sure, but im not willing to make waves to get rid of it. i get the logical argument via libraries and cigs, but im not swayed.

now, if we had free IDs, and we had online ways to procure an ID, such as sending in a pic or even an app that gauged lighting etc, to get those free IDs, id be happy to discount the distrust of the govt aspect and let things work themselves out on voting ID. but i think people are scared teens are gonna make fakes to buy booze so that wont happen.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Apr 21 2021 01:13pm)

It's the level of hassle that all of the world has become accustomed to.

If piss poor Mozambique had voter ID laws for decades now, like most other piss poor African countries, I'm sure we can also get to that level.

Quote (SunnyvaleTrailerPark @ Apr 21 2021 02:00pm)

Ok.

My question now is, why do Mexicans, Chinese, Russians, Japanese, Indians don't claim they have the same issues? Indian are almost black. Mexicans are not white. Chinese and Japanese are Asians.

All these people are thriving and content with their life even if they live in third world countries. Would it be because their country are made of their own races?

Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 21 2021 02:14pm)

is getting to a world standard really a precedent you want to set? or just on issues that matter to you?