this has been consistent in many forms since 2015. AOC joined along in 2018 of course but yes, agree with this


didnt qualify last round. have to conjure my own $600

Honestly I had a little hope for Trump since he seemed to have a populist streak and liked to kick the establishment, but every time it came to populist vs establishment he folded to the establishment, mainly because it made him more money. Constant "we're gonna reform healthcare" and then nothing, or "pass a $2000 stimulus for everybody" and then he put zero pressure on his party to move in that direction.

Like, he never respected the office. He used it to constantly enrich himself and never used it as a bargaining tool to push for things he claimed he wanted. Oh well. He's got a month left.

How did he enrich himself? His net worth has fallen while in office. Just curious.

First thing you need to understand is that we have never had a good idea of his net worth. His company is privately owned, so there is no obligation to report anything to the SEC and since we never had his tax information we never had an idea of his properties. His own claim of 4.5 billion is almost certainly inflated by a substantial factor, and his total debts before assuming the presidency are nearly a billion dollars. For somebody like Bill Gates, who's share ownership is public knowledge since he trades publicly traded stocks, we can get an almost exact day to day change in his net worth. So that gives you an idea of the limitations of saying Trump's net worth has gone down. Fact is we don't know the starting point, and we don't know the ending point.

He's enriched himself in various ways. One is that he's made tens of millions off of secret service staying at his hotels, for which he charges ridiculous prices. Another is his kids have used their connections and white house staffing positions to further business deals. And yet another is that foreign governments feel obligated to stay and pay a high rate at his hotels. Another is how his campaign spends ridiculous amounts of money at his own estate. Hell, every time he goes golfing at Mar-a-lago the secret service pays for rooms, rents golf carts, etc. etc.

Trump's self enrichment from the office has been brazen enough that I don't feel the need to give you a giant list of every incident. It's more shocking that you don't know about it honestly since it's been so obvious.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Dec 22 2020 12:25pm

A drop in net worth doesn't mean that there wasn't an enrichment from public funds being offset by losses in private avenues.

This information is not hard to find.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/16/trump-businesses-money-campaign-federal-agencies
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/20/trump-businesses-empire-tied-presidency-100496
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ballrooms-candles-and-luxury-cottages-during-trumps-term-millions-of-government-and-gop-dollars-have-flowed-to-his-propertiesmar-a-lago-charged-the-government-3-apiece-for-glasses-of-water-for-trump-and-the-japanese-leader/2020/10/27/186f20a2-1469-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html

And now, just for the sake of argument, can we compare the expenses of Trump's 4 years to Bush's last 4 years and Obama's last 4 year (last 4 for the most recent ofc) and determine if Trump's utilization of the businesses he preferred (even if they are his) were any more expensive or cost the tax payer any more than those utilized by Obama and Bush? I ask this specifically because while you claim hyperinflated cost from Trump, most of the numbers I've seen seem relatively low. Bit over a million in 4 years for hotel? Okay, I mean, for security details, staff, aids, etc.? Seems par for the course. His travel fees seem lower than say Obama's. Again, not trying to argue on this, merely looking for some comparative information to know whether it's a self-enrichment scam, or whether it's just par for the course and people are just salty that he'd rather cater to his own standard of businesses rather than a competitor's business.

First thing to look at is days on vacation. Trump blows literally every other president out of the water with how much time he spent away from the job. I think he's golfed more in 4 years than Obama did in 8.

Anyway you can totally go do those numbers if you want, but they aren't really the whole story since Obama and Bush didn't own those businesses. Well, maybe Bush did, he spent a lot of time at his ranch as president, but that was his home before the white house I think so that's not really unexpected.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Dec 22 2020 12:35pm

I don’t even need to look at numbers. He stopped being invested in any way when he lost the election. He’s been a 24-7 conspiracy nut job on par with Jere and the like. Like we could be getting bombed and he would probably stay golfing. His ability to grift money has moved from being pres to being conspiracy in chief so that’s where he sits. Any question on if that the guy is a loser should be beyond debate now.

It goes back to a basic question of preference. If you own a restaurant that you eat at all the time, and you prefer eating there, but your family is coming over, when you go out to eat do you go to your restaurant or your competitor's? On the one hand, you like the food served at your restaurant better, it's where you'd go if your family weren't around. On the other hand, your family may accuse you of wanting to profit off them. So what's the answer? I'd also like to question just how much Trump has had given away to charity when it comes to Presidential Salary. And you mention Bush's home, but when it comes to Trump, he literally had suites in his hotels and a couple clubs. They are his home(s). Seems to me that by definition, for Trump to spend any time "at home" it would naturally incur costs to the SS, the same as anyone else. Is the SS supposed to stay across the street though?

Just some things to think about. Like, I honestly don't care one way or another. Obama's travel and hotel expenses exceeded 114M in 8 years, and most reporting I've seen indicates Trump was costing some $10M/year, which is lower. If you can prove he was more excessive and all for personal gain, I'm totally happy to see it.

The issue isn't that the travel expenses are higher or lower. The issue is that he's profiting off of them. He's getting paid to go on vacation basically, and being paid by the government and his campaigns.

That's also not the only way that he's benefited from his position. Foreign nationals have said on record that they feel pressured to stay at his hotels over competitors, and there's evidence he's leveraged deals with the Saudis to get business deals for his businesses and family, and then Trump fired the IG that was looking into the possible corruption. https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2020/05/18/fired-state-department-ig-probed-trumps-saudi-arms-deals/

Trump has been so brazen in his corruption that there's no reason you should be ignorant of it. He's an exceptionally corrupt person, and he does it in plain sight.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Dec 22 2020 12:53pm