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Nov 15 2020 09:41pm
Quote (proccy @ Nov 15 2020 10:39pm)
it's easy to 'hear about' things

i'm a full blown stream junkie at this point. the lefties are the ones out in full force almost every night, smashing windows and (15% of the time) pounding people who film it on the "wrong night"

CHAZ/CHOP was particularly funny. they built walls and installed armed guards

You just don't see this antisocial antiestablishment behaviour from the right/proud boys. if anything they are a response to the lack of police enforcement regarding rioting leftists

also i'm canadian and watch this stuff from afar so i do try and listen as much as i rant.


I feel good either way because all of the antifa dudes are male feminists that will never have children or be relevant outside of tweaking on meth.
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Nov 15 2020 09:45pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Nov 15 2020 09:35pm)
I follow mainstream sources, who generally document "fiery but mostly peaceful antifa led protests" that leave people injured and/or dead, whereas I see right-wingers lead peaceful "white supremacist" marches in VA.

CHAZ was a left-wing movement in one of the most left-wing states in the country. I don't think anyone gets to blame right-wingers for the chaos that ensued, especially when the black men shot that brought it all to an end were undoubtably the fault of organizers.


You can certainly blame right wing groups that were doing drive-by shootings and the police for actively facilitating it.

Quote (proccy @ Nov 15 2020 09:39pm)
it's easy to 'hear about' things

i'm a full blown stream junkie at this point. the lefties are the ones out in full force almost every night, smashing windows and (15% of the time) pounding people who film it on the "wrong night"

CHAZ/CHOP was particularly funny. they built walls and installed armed guards

You just don't see this antisocial antiestablishment behaviour from the right/proud boys. if anything they are a response to the lack of police enforcement regarding rioting leftists

also i'm canadian and watch this stuff from afar so i do try and listen as much as i rant.


It's not really surprising you don't see this kind of thing from right wing groups. They are far more established in the system than left wing groups. The KKK was absurdly successful at infiltrating police departments after civil rights and a huge amount of those people are still actively serving and influencing the departments to this day. The right is also not hostile to the capitalist system, so they generally get overlooked by the capitalist overlords. The right is far more in line with the ideology of the power structures in the country.

I've said this a few times now but it bears repeating.

Right wingers only get censored when they really jump the shark, like Sargon of Akkad sending porn to neo-Nazis who were claiming him or Alex Jones actively harassing families who's kids were killed.

Left wingers are actively demonetized, deprioritized, and actively banned usually before they ever get a following. The ones who do get through have a much harder time getting followers than their right wing equivalents.

The end result is that the left is far more censored, and since they are censored at every level they learn to play by the TOS and not make egregious violations. Right wingers are censored less, get a following, and then when they finally get too bold and go way over the line it makes headlines when they get banned. So the ones with less censorship get more media from it.
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Nov 15 2020 09:49pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 15 2020 07:45pm)
You can certainly blame right wing groups that were doing drive-by shootings and the police for actively facilitating it.



It's not really surprising you don't see this kind of thing from right wing groups. They are far more established in the system than left wing groups. The KKK was absurdly successful at infiltrating police departments after civil rights and a huge amount of those people are still actively serving and influencing the departments to this day. The right is also not hostile to the capitalist system, so they generally get overlooked by the capitalist overlords. The right is far more in line with the ideology of the power structures in the country.

I've said this a few times now but it bears repeating.

Right wingers only get censored when they really jump the shark, like Sargon of Akkad sending porn to neo-Nazis who were claiming him or Alex Jones actively harassing families who's kids were killed.

Left wingers are actively demonetized, deprioritized, and actively banned usually before they ever get a following. The ones who do get through have a much harder time getting followers than their right wing equivalents.

The end result is that the left is far more censored, and since they are censored at every level they learn to play by the TOS and not make egregious violations. Right wingers are censored less, get a following, and then when they finally get too bold and go way over the line it makes headlines when they get banned. So the ones with less censorship get more media from it.


tbh i may or may not agree with a whole ton of what you just said, but it has little to do with what i see on the streets via live stream since may. i'm gonna noodle on it for sure, thank you.
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Nov 15 2020 09:49pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 15 2020 10:45pm)
You can certainly blame right wing groups that were doing drive-by shootings and the police for actively facilitating it.



It's not really surprising you don't see this kind of thing from right wing groups. They are far more established in the system than left wing groups. The KKK was absurdly successful at infiltrating police departments after civil rights and a huge amount of those people are still actively serving and influencing the departments to this day. The right is also not hostile to the capitalist system, so they generally get overlooked by the capitalist overlords. The right is far more in line with the ideology of the power structures in the country.

I've said this a few times now but it bears repeating.

Right wingers only get censored when they really jump the shark, like Sargon of Akkad sending porn to neo-Nazis who were claiming him or Alex Jones actively harassing families who's kids were killed.

Left wingers are actively demonetized, deprioritized, and actively banned usually before they ever get a following. The ones who do get through have a much harder time getting followers than their right wing equivalents.

The end result is that the left is far more censored, and since they are censored at every level they learn to play by the TOS and not make egregious violations. Right wingers are censored less, get a following, and then when they finally get too bold and go way over the line it makes headlines when they get banned. So the ones with less censorship get more media from it.


You need to take a step back and document some of these frankly astounding accusations.

We are talking about a left-wing haven within an incredibly left-wing state. Exactly how did these right-wing groups establish such a pernicious hold on local law enforcement? Does this really pass the sniff test?
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Nov 15 2020 09:51pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Nov 15 2020 07:49pm)
You need to take a step back and document some of these frankly astounding accusations.

We are talking about a left-wing haven within an incredibly left-wing state. Exactly how did these right-wing groups establish such a pernicious hold on local law enforcement? Does this really pass the sniff test?


i don't quite follow the rant but i think i get it. i've often wondered myself. why is portland, the most accepting and open minded place in probably the entire world. the center of constant riots and antisocial behaviour.


e-

i'm WC vancouver but canada. i see how crazy seattle gets. we don't even get that here. it's WEIRD MAN

This post was edited by proccy on Nov 15 2020 09:51pm
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Nov 15 2020 09:52pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Nov 15 2020 09:49pm)
You need to take a step back and document some of these frankly astounding accusations.

We are talking about a left-wing haven within an incredibly left-wing state. Exactly how did these right-wing groups establish such a pernicious hold on local law enforcement? Does this really pass the sniff test?


If you think right wingers aren't in control of most police departments, you need to take a step back and do some research. Infiltrating police departments was and continues to be an organized effort by far right organizations for well over 50 years.
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Nov 15 2020 10:00pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 15 2020 10:52pm)
If you think right wingers aren't in control of most police departments, you need to take a step back and do some research. Infiltrating police departments was and continues to be an organized effort by far right organizations for well over 50 years.


I know police officers in deep-blue states.

If you're going to assert that far-right shadow organizations have a great deal of control over police organizations in liberal states, there's obviously a great deal of evidence required.
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Nov 15 2020 10:08pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Nov 15 2020 11:00pm)
I know police officers in deep-blue states.

If you're going to assert that far-right shadow organizations have a great deal of control over police organizations in liberal states, there's obviously a great deal of evidence required.


DA's in portland refuse to prosecute antifa. Thor has his head so far up his rear its embarrassing.
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Nov 15 2020 10:12pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Nov 15 2020 10:00pm)
I know police officers in deep-blue states.

If you're going to assert that far-right shadow organizations have a great deal of control over police organizations in liberal states, there's obviously a great deal of evidence required.


This is one of those things where there's a wealth of evidence you won't be told about because most people just don't want to think the police can be compromised, but the FBI has routinely published findings on it for decades. Notably one in 2006 and 2015.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/hidden-plain-sight-racism-white-supremacy-and-far-right-militancy-law

It's been a pretty open project from right wing groups for as long as police departments have been a thing.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Nov 15 2020 10:13pm
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Nov 15 2020 11:15pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 15 2020 11:12pm)
This is one of those things where there's a wealth of evidence you won't be told about because most people just don't want to think the police can be compromised, but the FBI has routinely published findings on it for decades. Notably one in 2006 and 2015.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/hidden-plain-sight-racism-white-supremacy-and-far-right-militancy-law

It's been a pretty open project from right wing groups for as long as police departments have been a thing.


Of course people are skeptical about claims that police organizations are compromised by far-right organizations, that's an enormously consequential statement that requires an abundance of evidence. Let's do a deep dive into your source and see if it passes muster.

Quote
In 2017, the FBI reported that white supremacists posed a “persistent threat of lethal violence” that has produced more fatalities than any other category of domestic terrorists since 2000. footnote3_mpt7ryx3 Alarmingly, internal FBI policy documents have also warned agents assigned to domestic terrorism cases that the white supremacist and anti-government militia groups they investigate often have “active links” to law enforcement officials.


Quote
Obviously, only a tiny percentage of law enforcement officials are likely to be active members of white supremacist groups.


The paper quotes FBI sources acknowledging white supremacists as a threat circa 2017. It goes on to note that "obviously", any connections with white supremacists represents a tiny percentage of law enforcement, and certainly does not support the notion that law enforcement in deep blue cities within deep blue states are controlled by far-right terror groups.

Quote
Some officers who have associated with militant groups or engaged in racist behavior... have had their dismissals overturned by courts or in arbitration. Such due process is required to ensure integrity and equity in the disciplinary process and protect falsely accused police officers from unjust punishments. Certainly, there will be cases where an officer’s behavior can be corrected with remedial measures short of termination. But leaving officers tainted by racist behavior in a job with immense discretion to take a person’s life and liberty requires a detailed supervision plan to mitigate the potential threats they pose to the communities they police, implemented with sufficient transparency to restore public trust.


We really have to question the partiality of the article. Why would officers who have had their wrongful dismissals correctly overturned be "tainted" by accusations of racist behavior? Isn't that the entire point of neutral arbitration?

Quote
The FBI’s 2015 Counterterrorism Policy Directive and Policy Guide warns that “domestic terrorism investigations focused on militia extremists, white supremacist extremists, and sovereign citizen extremists often have identified active links to law enforcement officers.” footnote1_loeg3z312 This alarming declaration followed a 2006 intelligence assessment, based on FBI investigations and open sources, that warned of “white supremacist infiltration of law enforcement . . . by organized groups and by self-initiated infiltration by law enforcement personnel sympathetic to white supremacist causes.” footnote2_tpzae1513 Active links between law enforcement officials and the subjects of any terrorism investigation should raise alarms within our national security establishment, but the federal government has not responded accordingly.


The author has already answered his own question. Only a "tiny" percentage of law enforcement officers, presumably in conservative states, are involved. Of course the federal government hasn't "responded" in the way the author would prefer, it's a marginal problem by the author's own admission.

Quote
The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) have identified white supremacists as the most lethal domestic terrorist threat to the United States. footnote3_2rw576h14 In recent years, white supremacists have executed deadly rampages in Charleston, South Carolina, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and El Paso, Texas. footnote4_2cyp37215 Narrowly thwarted attempts by neo-Nazis to manufacture radiological “dirty” bombs in Maine in 2009 and Florida in 2017 show their dangerous capability and intent to unleash mass destruction. footnote5_6qkfgjh16 These groups also pose a lethal threat to law enforcement, as evidenced by recent attacks against Federal Protective Service officers and sheriff’s deputies in California by far-right militants intent on starting the “Boogaloo” — a euphemism for a new civil war — which killed two and injured several others. footnote6_88x3k4n17


And yet the Charleston shooter did not have connections with either law enforcement or actual white supremacist organizations. This is an odd non-sequitur.

To be honest, I got bored reading 1/3rd of the way through, if there is something important I missed, let me know.
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