d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Hillary 2016
Prev1121314151639Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 112,095
Joined: Jul 25 2008
Gold: 40.42
Apr 14 2016 05:16pm
Quote (IceMage @ 14 Apr 2016 15:14)
You think the gay marriage and TPP flip flops were not politically motivated?

It blows my mind that Obama can go from not supporting gay marriage to lighting up the White House in homo colors. The man is more concerned about his place in history than his place in eternity... maybe he really is an atheist.


I think she moved on gay marriage when the country was ready, tbh. I don't think that's so terrible a move.

The TPP on the other hand, I'll definitely grant you.
Member
Posts: 49,289
Joined: Jun 18 2006
Gold: 11.77
Apr 14 2016 05:18pm
Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Apr 14 2016 06:16pm)
I think she moved on gay marriage when the country was ready, tbh. I don't think that's so terrible a move.

The TPP on the other hand, I'll definitely grant you.


So you think she opposed it for political reasons, and then revealed her true position once it was politically acceptable?
Member
Posts: 112,095
Joined: Jul 25 2008
Gold: 40.42
Apr 14 2016 05:23pm
Quote (IceMage @ 14 Apr 2016 15:18)
So you think she opposed it for political reasons, and then revealed her true position once it was politically acceptable?


Nah, I think that she found gay marriage to be way too divisive and not a big enough deal, so pushed heavily for civil unions as a solid compromise. I don't think it's about flopping so much as realizing the time had come - she'd already moved to being for it (or at least accepting) at the state level and striking down DOMA a good decade or so ago, so it wasn't a long step.

I think there's a difference between flip flopping and just not being passionate enough to embrace a very contentious position until it stops being contentious.
Member
Posts: 38,317
Joined: Jul 12 2006
Gold: 20.31
Apr 14 2016 05:23pm
Quote (dro94 @ Apr 14 2016 04:03pm)
Clinton flip flops more than Romney, and that's saying something. She has very few deeply held beliefs, she will compromise any position if her donors or public opinion sways a certain way. She is running for president for her own narcissistic pride of being the first woman president, like Obama wanting to be the first black pres. Obama gets away with it more because he is a smoother operator, and frankly is a lot smarter than her.

They are all big government types, and follow Keynesian theory. For the 2nd election running I will be writing in Ron Paul in the general election.


I get that this is a popular view but that doesn't make it any less wrong, or nonsensical. It gets the electoral history of the last 2 decades completely wrong and that's why it's so damn funny.

It's interesting that you went on the way that you did, because you get those motivations even more wrong than the last guy who tried this did: she abandoned the thought of running for president in 2004 specifically because she didn't want to break her pledge to New Yorkers. Four years later she refused to adopt an updated position on Iraq, even though she had every justification for doing so. It was the second time she refused to compromise on a deeply-important position. This is why I always crack up when people try to create this Clinton caricature -- they either magically forget this crucial part of the story, or they're oblivious to the fact that it even happened.
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Apr 14 2016 05:30pm
Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Apr 14 2016 05:16pm)
I think she moved on gay marriage when the country was ready, tbh. I don't think that's so terrible a move.

The TPP on the other hand, I'll definitely grant you.


She was a few years late on that
Member
Posts: 49,289
Joined: Jun 18 2006
Gold: 11.77
Apr 14 2016 05:35pm
Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Apr 14 2016 06:23pm)
Nah, I think that she found gay marriage to be way too divisive and not a big enough deal, so pushed heavily for civil unions as a solid compromise. I don't think it's about flopping so much as realizing the time had come - she'd already moved to being for it (or at least accepting) at the state level and striking down DOMA a good decade or so ago, so it wasn't a long step.

I think there's a difference between flip flopping and just not being passionate enough to embrace a very contentious position until it stops being contentious.


I would agree with that. I think it makes her and Obama moral cowards, but unfortunately that's one of the characteristics of a successful politician.
Member
Posts: 112,095
Joined: Jul 25 2008
Gold: 40.42
Apr 14 2016 05:38pm
Quote (IceMage @ 14 Apr 2016 15:35)
I would agree with that. I think it makes her and Obama moral cowards, but unfortunately that's one of the characteristics of a successful politician.


Eh. I don't think it was ever a moral issue for either of them at any point.
Member
Posts: 70,459
Joined: Feb 3 2006
Gold: 28,299.69
Apr 14 2016 05:50pm
Quote (IceMage @ Apr 14 2016 03:35pm)
I would agree with that. I think it makes her and Obama moral cowards, but unfortunately that's one of the characteristics of a successful politician.


this election is showing more than most that the people are very similar to the politicians

a thus far rejection of sanders has shown that a majority of people aren't looking for the -right side of history- social issue champion that they lambaste clinton like politicians for not being

it's like everyone hating on congress and the senate yet voting their doucher right back in
Member
Posts: 12,201
Joined: Feb 13 2010
Gold: 14.88
Apr 14 2016 09:45pm
Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Apr 14 2016 09:13am)
You should stop being pretty sure when you're wrong

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/nbc-donald-trump-immigrants-1201530568/


Don't be dense. That publicity statement was made ages after Trump told NBC he wouldn't be returning for the Celebrity Apprentice. Them saying they don't want him back is silly when he marched out the door weeks ago.

Secondly, a corporation severing ties with an individual for his political opinion is something that I'd think liberals would oppose. Personally, I don't like our most powerful corporate entities, already in bed with government, denouncing the opinions of individuals and threatening economic punishment for not supporting the standard progressive government platform. But the boycott Trump bandwagon has come and gone and has inflicted negligible damage.

Finally, this NBC firing nonsense that never even happened wouldn't reflect poor business management positions since it was done to get those valuable "denounce the bigot of the week" points.

Personally, I'm liking what I see. The left's refusal to let people openly discuss immigration and race issues only serves to further divide communities. If it keeps up, we'll see the return of brutal fascism in our life time. I could not be more excited. Democracy is a failure. Fascism is the future.
Member
Posts: 70,459
Joined: Feb 3 2006
Gold: 28,299.69
Apr 14 2016 09:48pm
Quote (PlasmaSnake101 @ Apr 14 2016 07:45pm)
Don't be dense. That publicity statement was made ages after Trump told NBC he wouldn't be returning for the Celebrity Apprentice. Them saying they don't want him back is silly when he marched out the door weeks ago.

Secondly, a corporation severing ties with an individual for his political opinion is something that I'd think liberals would oppose. Personally, I don't like our most powerful corporate entities, already in bed with government, denouncing the opinions of individuals and threatening economic punishment for not supporting the standard progressive government platform. But the boycott Trump bandwagon has come and gone and has inflicted negligible damage.

Finally, this NBC firing nonsense that never even happened wouldn't reflect poor business management positions since it was done to get those valuable "denounce the bigot of the week" points.

Personally, I'm liking what I see. The left's refusal to let people openly discuss immigration and race issues only serves to further divide communities. If it keeps up, we'll see the return of brutal fascism in our life time. I could not be more excited. Democracy is a failure. Fascism is the future.




did they do this to the trumpster?
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1121314151639Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll