Where does jesus say that?

Who said anything about sitting around doing nothing? That's not what the Sabbath is about at all. It's a day of prayer, feasting and family. Picture something like christmas only it's every week. (No gifts though. )

Your view of the afterlife is probably closer to the jewish view than the typical christian view.

Did anyone else hear jesus speaking to Paul? No, so you have only his word on the matter. My view on what jesus would say is based on what the christian bible says he said and did during his life. What evidence do you have other than Paul's word that he would make such a drastic turnaround?

Im sorry i didnt realize you were god, all knowing and all powerful, ill be sure not to second guess you in the future.... my appologies, god.


please do tell us what jesus really ment.


please god save our souls from hell, tell us what jesus really meant, oh great all knowing one.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 17 2013 04:37am

As I said all i or anyone knows is what the Christian bible tells us. And what it tells us is that throughout his life jesus kept the law and preached keeping it. Then comes paul and says that jesus appeared to him and told that the law now no longer applies. You don't have to be a god to know that that sounds just a bit fishy.

do you know what fulfil means?

some might say it means to bring to an end.

can you think of any time when heaven and earth might dissapear for some one?

perhaps when you are dead?

if you know the bible, you know the passage right?

then you know what jesus is saying on the mount as he perdicted his own death, right?

no?

perhaps you are familar with the passage in the book of isahai that prophesises the comeing of a man who would bring a new covenanat for all man kind to worship under?

a prophecy that is repeatedly refered to over and over and over again in the new testament??

still no?

Give this a read:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

a crib notes type list of what it is to be christian, that is thought to have been used by jewish people looking to convert to christianity in posxsibly the first but more likely the second century.

its a good start to enhancing your knowledge of christianity.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 17 2013 05:01am

ful·fill
1.bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted)
2.carry out (a task, duty, or role) as required, pledged, or expected.

not quite 'to end something' but if such an end were a part of the process, completing the process would include an end. the problem is that nowhere in judaism does it say that the law will be abolished when the messiah comes. the messiah will bring peace on earth and all will know God. (whcih jesus never accomplished, though christians say he will do that when he comes back) nowhere does it say the commandments will be abolished.


its interesting that you bring up that quote from the sermon on the mount, in which jesus explicitly states that he has not come to abolish the law in any way. regarding heaven and earth passing, both are still here. both remain even after a person dies. they pass from one to the other, but that doesnt mean that either disappears. this statement of jesus is rhetorical. he doesnt expect heaven and earth to ever pass, this is why he says that only when they do will the law be abolished. in other words, it never will be. note that heaven and earth are used in other places as a means of cumminicating the idea of something being everlasting. indeed, even christian commentators say this. the following is a quote from a christian commentator taken from http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-18.htm.



so even christian commentators say that jesus said the law will never pass. yet they dont follow it. why not?


ah yes, the infamous isiah 53. while christians view this as a prophecy of jesus, taken in context it refers to the nation of israel as a whole, which has undergone much suffering as a result of their sins. isaiah commonly refers to israel as 'my servant', this passage is no diffferent. see http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/isaiah53/isaiah-53-in-53-seconds/





i read through that, and to me it doesnt seem like something aimed at potential converts. something aimed at potential converts would give reasonings and explanations in order to convince. this isnt written to convince, its written to convey, something like a father to a son or teacher to a student, how to be a good christian.

that being said, not only does it not say not to keep the commandments, it says TO keep them! " Do not in any way forsake the commandments of the Lord; but keep what you have received, neither adding thereto nor taking away therefrom. " (chapter 4) so even at this point, the commandments were being kept, at least by some. without looking it up, im going to guess that this was from somewhere near jerusalem. i went and looked it up on wikipedia, and according to that it was titled as from the twelve apostles, so it probably did originate near jerusalem, which is where they were.

origin aside, it is further proof of what i have been saying, that the earliest christians kept the commandments and that jesus never said not to.



incidentally, as an aside, there are those christians who do keep the commandments. i met one once at an interfaith panel when i was in college and had an interesting talk with him. he said there was a community of them nearby or something, i dont remember exactly.

This post was edited by ReturnFormer on Oct 17 2013 10:09am

lets get a definition.

Commandments: please define any and all commandments that you refer to when you say commandments.



as ive said many a times, the 10 commandments have been restated over and over and over and over and over and over and over again in the new testament these include:

1:You shall have no other gods before me

Mathew 4:10

Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.

2:Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing in heaven above, or things which are in the earth beneath.

Mathew 4:10

Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.

3:Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Mathew 12:31

And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

4: Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

Mathew 12:11-12

11 He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

5:Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.

Mathew 19:18-19

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.

6:You shall not murder.

Mathew 19:18-19

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.

7:You shall not commit adultery.

Mathew 19:18-19

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.

8:You shall not steal.

Mathew 19:18-19

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.

9:You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Mathew 19:18-19

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.

10:You shall not covet your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.

Mathew 19:18-19

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 17 2013 11:37pm

as i said previously, when i talk about the commandments, im referring to more than just the ten commandments. throughout the entirety of the 5 books of moses there are various positive and negative commandments given. jews count them as 613 commandments total, with some authorities differing on which things are the actual commandment and which are subsets of another individual commandment. a few random examples include:

1. To know there is a G-d--Exodus 20:2
22. To learn Torah and teach it--Deuteronomy 6:7
64. Not to attempt to engage the dead in conversation--Deuteronomy 18:11
81. To put a Mezuzah on each door post--Deuteronomy 6:9
86. To circumcise all males on the eighth day after their birth--Leviticus 12:3
124. Not to withhold food, clothing, and sexual relations from your wife--Exodus 21:10
180. Not to eat non-kosher animals--Leviticus 11:4
238. Not to wear Shatnez, a cloth woven of wool and linen--Deuteronomy 22:11
279. To rest the land during the seventh year by not doing any work which enhances growth--Exodus 34:21
471. Not to possess inaccurate scales and weights even if they are not for use--Deuteronomy 25:13
526. Lend to the poor and destitute--Exodus 22:24
527. Not to press them for payment if you know they don't have it--Exodus 22:24
557. A judge must not pity the murderer or assaulter at the trial--Deuteronomy 19:13
580. Not to add to the Torah commandments or their oral explanations--Deuteronomy 13:1
581. Not to diminish from the Torah any commandments, in whole or in part--Deuteronomy 13:1

and so on. these were taken from http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/756399/jewish/The-613-Commandments.htm

wikipedia also has what looks to be good (correct) info about it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

nah, jesus was just talking about the 10, all that stuff is nonsense.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 18 2013 08:11am

proof?


cause i can bring proofs to the opposite, that he meant more than just the ten commandments. all you have to do is look at what his followers were doing. for example, see acts 21:17-26 where you clearly see that the followers of jesus living in jerusalem kept to the law, and asked paul to join in a sin-offering to show that he was as well. see also acts 15, the council at jerusalem where they debate whether non-jewish followers of jesus must be circumcised and keep the commandments. the implication being that the jewish ones certainly have to. circumcision not being one of the ten commandments, they are talking about the full 613 commandments, not just the ten commandments.


This post was edited by ReturnFormer on Oct 18 2013 08:21am

yes, that would be nice.

ive backed up each of the 10 commandments with passages from the new testament.

please back up your 613.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 18 2013 08:20am