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Nov 13 2024 03:37pm
Quote (ferdia @ Nov 13 2024 12:54pm)
Is there Genocide in Gaza / The West Bank ?

The answer is "yes". This is based on the fact that many of the actions occurring in Gaza and the West Bank fit elements of the genocide definition under international law, particularly the criteria of "intent to destroy in whole or in part" a group, as laid out by the UN Genocide Convention.
Key Elements:

1. Killing Members of the Group: Both Gaza and the West Bank have seen significant loss of life, with Palestinians being killed during military operations, settlement expansion, and displacement. This meets the criterion of killing members of the group. Mass casualties, particularly in Gaza, can be viewed as part of a broader pattern of destruction.
2. Causing Serious Bodily or Mental Harm: In Gaza, the psychological and physical toll on Palestinians is immense, including trauma from bombings, restrictions, and violence. This fits with the harm inflicted on members of the group, as well as the long-term impact on mental health and community stability.
3. Deliberately Inflicting Conditions Designed to Destroy the Group: Policies that restrict movement, access to resources, and the fragmentation of land in both Gaza and the West Bank can be seen as actions that intentionally undermine the viability of Palestinian communities. This aligns with the deliberate infliction of conditions that could destroy a group’s ability to survive and thrive in the region.
4. Forced Displacement: Palestinians are continually displaced from their homes in both Gaza and the West Bank, often with little to no recourse. Forced displacement, especially under military orders or due to settlement expansion, is a form of forced removal, which is a recognized component of genocide.
5. Fragmentation of Identity and Future Viability: The systematic nature of these actions — including settlement expansion, destruction of homes, and legal restrictions — creates conditions where Palestinians' national and cultural identity in these areas is undermined, contributing to the overall destruction of the group’s existence in the region, particularly through ethnic cleansing and the alteration of demographic realities.

Conclusion:

While there is significant debate about whether these actions meet the strict legal threshold of genocide, based on the facts of mass killings, displacement, and systemic harm, it can be argued that these events align with the definition of genocide under the "in part" criterion, particularly as they relate to Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Therefore, from a factual standpoint, yes, Gaza and the West Bank exhibit patterns that are consistent with genocide.


no use trying to talk reason or ethics with Christo-fascists my man

This post was edited by gnarjay on Nov 13 2024 03:37pm
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Nov 13 2024 04:15pm
Quote (gnarjay @ Nov 13 2024 09:37pm)
no use trying to talk reason or ethics with Christo-fascists my man


I am not trying to reason with them. I am providing a counter position and making a point of not being on the boat of moral bankruptcy.
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Nov 13 2024 06:01pm
Quote (ferdia @ Nov 13 2024 09:54pm)
Is there Genocide in Gaza / The West Bank ?

The answer is "yes". This is based on the fact that many of the actions occurring in Gaza and the West Bank fit elements of the genocide definition under international law, particularly the criteria of "intent to destroy in whole or in part" a group, as laid out by the UN Genocide Convention.
Key Elements:

1. Killing Members of the Group: Both Gaza and the West Bank have seen significant loss of life, with Palestinians being killed during military operations, settlement expansion, and displacement. This meets the criterion of killing members of the group. Mass casualties, particularly in Gaza, can be viewed as part of a broader pattern of destruction.
2. Causing Serious Bodily or Mental Harm: In Gaza, the psychological and physical toll on Palestinians is immense, including trauma from bombings, restrictions, and violence. This fits with the harm inflicted on members of the group, as well as the long-term impact on mental health and community stability.
3. Deliberately Inflicting Conditions Designed to Destroy the Group: Policies that restrict movement, access to resources, and the fragmentation of land in both Gaza and the West Bank can be seen as actions that intentionally undermine the viability of Palestinian communities. This aligns with the deliberate infliction of conditions that could destroy a group’s ability to survive and thrive in the region.
4. Forced Displacement: Palestinians are continually displaced from their homes in both Gaza and the West Bank, often with little to no recourse. Forced displacement, especially under military orders or due to settlement expansion, is a form of forced removal, which is a recognized component of genocide.
5. Fragmentation of Identity and Future Viability: The systematic nature of these actions — including settlement expansion, destruction of homes, and legal restrictions — creates conditions where Palestinians' national and cultural identity in these areas is undermined, contributing to the overall destruction of the group’s existence in the region, particularly through ethnic cleansing and the alteration of demographic realities.

Conclusion:

While there is significant debate about whether these actions meet the strict legal threshold of genocide, based on the facts of mass killings, displacement, and systemic harm, it can be argued that these events align with the definition of genocide under the "in part" criterion, particularly as they relate to Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Therefore, from a factual standpoint, yes, Gaza and the West Bank exhibit patterns that are consistent with genocide.

Just like leftists label everyone not agreeing with them as nazi, fashist or enemy of mankind (actual fashist behaviour btw.), you can't throw around exact definitions in wishy washy ways.
Genocide has never happened in Gaza. Israel has never entered there with aim to ethnocally cleanse Gaza from Palestinians by kiling them all. Real genocide examples are WW2 nazi regime vs Jews or Mongols vs half of the central Asia. Gaza population has been growing for decades.
There is no need to make a wall of text to declare a "genocide". There is no such a thing. Sorry for being literal but that's billshit.

In this war, there are 3 parties: Israel, Hamas and the Gaza population.
1. Hamas attacked Israel then fled and hid behind civilian infrastructure and civilians.
2. Israel hit back. You can't expect 0 casualty.
3. Most deaths, sickness or other problems right now are due to the infrastructure problems inside of Gaza ( no food, doctors, sanitary etc.).
4. Sufficient aid is arriving for the 3rd party, the Gaza population. Hamas confiscates all aid and resells that to their own people at 10x price on the market.

If you ask me, Hamas fucked around and is about to find out and they are the ones holding civilian Gaza population and Israelians from the attack hostages.

IMO, Israel should stop the attack if they cannot get rid of Hamas once and for all.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Nov 13 2024 06:03pm
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Nov 13 2024 09:54pm
Quote (babun1024 @ 14 Nov 2024 02:01)
Just like leftists label everyone not agreeing with them as nazi, fashist or enemy of mankind (actual fashist behaviour btw.), you can't throw around exact definitions in wishy washy ways.
Genocide has never happened in Gaza. Israel has never entered there with aim to ethnocally cleanse Gaza from Palestinians by kiling them all. Real genocide examples are WW2 nazi regime vs Jews or Mongols vs half of the central Asia. Gaza population has been growing for decades.
There is no need to make a wall of text to declare a "genocide". There is no such a thing. Sorry for being literal but that's billshit.

In this war, there are 3 parties: Israel, Hamas and the Gaza population.
1. Hamas attacked Israel then fled and hid behind civilian infrastructure and civilians.
2. Israel hit back. You can't expect 0 casualty.
3. Most deaths, sickness or other problems right now are due to the infrastructure problems inside of Gaza ( no food, doctors, sanitary etc.).
4. Sufficient aid is arriving for the 3rd party, the Gaza population. Hamas confiscates all aid and resells that to their own people at 10x price on the market.

If you ask me, Hamas fucked around and is about to find out and they are the ones holding civilian Gaza population and Israelians from the attack hostages.

IMO, Israel should stop the attack if they cannot get rid of Hamas once and for all.


We will not stop until they surrender and release the hostages, we’re done playing that game
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Nov 14 2024 01:07am
Quote (Many_Names @ 14 Nov 2024 04:54)
We will not stop until they surrender and release the hostages, we’re done playing that game


Is Israel planning to rebuild those civilian buildings IDF destroyed? There has to be a way for life to return to normalcy.

I’ve seen videos of mosques being demolished and aerial footage seems to show that north of Gaza is mostly flattened.

This post was edited by Malopox on Nov 14 2024 01:18am
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Nov 14 2024 01:30am
Quote (Malopox @ 14 Nov 2024 09:07)
Is Israel planning to rebuild those civilian buildings IDF destroyed? There has to be a way for life to return to normalcy.

I’ve seen videos of mosques being demolished and aerial footage seems to show that north of Gaza is mostly flattened.


Do you hear yourself?

Not our problem, its called decisions and consequences

This post was edited by Many_Names on Nov 14 2024 01:36am
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Nov 14 2024 01:53am
Quote (Malopox @ Nov 14 2024 08:07am)
Is Israel planning to rebuild those civilian buildings IDF destroyed? There has to be a way for life to return to normalcy.

I’ve seen videos of mosques being demolished and aerial footage seems to show that north of Gaza is mostly flattened.

Nothing has been built at all in Gaza by the population itself or Hamas. 99% of whatever you there was builr by Israel or internatiional community. Gaza is the defacto biggest welfare state in the world. This is why you can't leave them alone ecen if they "succeed" whatever that may mean.
Quote (Many_Names @ Nov 14 2024 08:30am)
Do you hear yourself?

Not our problem, its called decisions and consequences


There is no "We". Lots of Israelins see Netanjahu for whar he is: a warmonger doing everything to stay in power. Those october attacks were also partially due to the neglience of border control. That's on the current government. 100 thousands have been protesting against Netanjahu for months before the attack started. He is a currupt pile of shit and has to go.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Nov 14 2024 01:59am
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Nov 14 2024 02:05am
Quote (Many_Names @ 14 Nov 2024 08:30)
Do you hear yourself?

Not our problem, its called decisions and consequences


Where should these displaced people live?

Making them live in tents is fertile ground for another resistance movement and will inevitably give rise to another attempt at rebellion.
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Nov 14 2024 02:24am
Quote (babun1024 @ 14 Nov 2024 08:53)
Nothing has been built at all in Gaza by the population itself or Hamas. 99% of whatever you there was builr by Israel or internatiional community. Gaza is the defacto biggest welfare state in the world. This is why you can't leave them alone ecen if they "succeed" whatever that may mean.


Sure, they may be the biggest welfare state of the world. I just don’t understand what the plan here really is.

The realist in me says despite UN condemnations, Security Council resolutions or international law, Israel currently enjoys unconditional support of the biggest military power of the world and has about 50 years of runway to finish expanding before said power is eclipsed. Anyhow Israel will most probably finish off all those that call themselves Palestinians and will probably try to further annex part of Lebanon/ Syria / Jordan in our lifetimes.

I remember I had a laugh at my friend who worked as a Dutch diplomat when he mentioned that US politics is driven by religion and they want to accomplish the proverbial “The End of Times”. US just made Mike Huckabee an ambassador to Israel, sounds like the joke is on me and my friend was right.

This post was edited by Malopox on Nov 14 2024 02:27am
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Nov 14 2024 02:29am
Quote (Malopox @ Nov 14 2024 09:24am)
Sure, they may be the biggest welfare state of the world. I just don’t understand what the plan here is really is.

The realist in me says despite UN condemnations, Security Council resolutions or international law, Israel currently enjoys unconditional support of the biggest military power of the world and has about 50 years of runway to finish expanding before said power is eclipsed. Anyhow Israel will most probably finish off all those that call themselves Palestinians and will probably try to further annex part of Lebanon/ Syria / Jordan in our lifetimes.

I remember I had a laugh at my friend who worked as a Dutch diplomat when he mentioned that US politics is driven by religion and they want to accomplish the proverbial “The End of Times”. US just made Mike Huckabee an ambassador to Israel, sounds like the joke is on me and my friend was right.

It's the other way around. US supports Israel to stay in power in the middle east. Saudia Arabia are useful lapdogs but nothing more. Iran and co. are trying to get rid of the US in their region.
True peace will be there when the US loses all control over the middle east. They are the foreign power instigating all kind of shit like Isis or the current Iran regime, so the region can never be stable. Israel has to have and support US bases all around middle east as "partners".

There is no war of religion, moslems vs jews, left ot right or whatever, just blocks striving for power.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Nov 14 2024 02:31am
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