He's like an alt-right Communist these days.

His head is way too far in the clouds.

hitler was also elected by his people. just sayin...

and just for the record: if we do nothing about erdogan, he might very well stay president for another 15 or 20 years... this is not like the american political system, where you know that you will get rid of any president after 4 or, at most, 8 years. 8 years btw during which even a bad president is constricted by the system of checks and balances cant rule as he pleases...

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 18 2017 04:17pm

Europe has made Turkey the only entrypoint of African immigration, or better: Asylum seekers. They play an important role in stopping the wave of immigrants coming to Europe.
The country is in trouble though, enemies are piling up for abroad and within. Its government is reducing freedoms in order to (from their perspective) deal with the situation.

Yet we only see the building of a new type of Putin in the south. And are unable to support any actions.
After Brexit, this is another proof that referendums are failing democracy and should be banned.

Not the US government's job to depose every foreign leader we dont like.


Referendums ARE democracy.

Ban democracy in the name of saving it!

In most cases ppl dont know what they are voting for, too easily fooled by populism and most issues are not black and white/yes or no issues. It cuts out the experts and laws, ways to come to a middle ground, in order to let uninformed fools vote.
Democracy means we choose our government and experts. Its dynamic and changes from time to time.

/e We keep our government responsible for what they to, not our citizens in a referendum.

This post was edited by Knaapie on Apr 18 2017 04:29pm

Ask yourself a simple question: Can we make the situation better? The answer is not a result of a simple calculation, but the answer is not by casting of Turkey.



They were supporting the war against ISIS half passively and half proactively only in their self interests. Turkey has given support to ISIS through oil money and filtering in fighters, but its also rushing to seize territories to cut off the kurds. Turkey was largely ambivalent to the sectarian war, not being openly ISIS nor wanting to destroy them. But they're very interested in attacking the kurds and the balance of powers of the region as it impacts them. So they've given tepid direct support and mostly just let the US fly its missions out while advancing the syrian north where ISIS retreats without any real battle.
Their ability to use the flood of refugees as a bargaining chip with the EU is about to dry up as a result of the syrian war ending. Next will come negotiations over the return of refugees, and Turkey will once again have a bargaining chip.



And do you present a solution, or just lament the inevitable? Its easy to point out the looming problem, its harder to actually improve it.
We can't make the situation better by such kneejerk reactions, but we can certainly make it worse



Sanctions didn't depose anyone in Iran or Iraq or Russia. They won't topple erdogan, and they will just completely shut off the west from turkey and forever sever the secular arab democracy from its western allies. Attempting to harden support from religious sunni arabs has never worked and never will for obvious reasons. Force erdogan into a corner and there won't be any 2019 election- its not like there is even a real potential of that now anyway when he's seized dictator powers.

Or maybe the explanation is a lot more simple and a lot less palatable: The people aren't being hoodwinked. They are voting in their own interests. They don't want "democracy", many would rather have sharia law.
The people chose what they wanted, and it just demonstrates that democracy is as fallible as the people. If the people are regressive islamists, don't be surprised when they tear down western ideals.
Isn't there supposed to be some part of the movie where the unshave arab rebel with a fabulous haircut captures schwarzenegger and mocks his western dogma and arrogance and how america's 'democracy' is hypocritical?

someone got an update list of promises Trump broke ?

You made my referendum argument all about regressive muslims. kek

Is Trump then the example of regressive westernism ?