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May 6 2017 03:20pm
Quote (Goomshill @ May 6 2017 11:44am)
Diversity of opinion is diversity of opinion. Whether they'll compromise or not doesn't change the breadth of the spectrum of viewpoints. Those who want biblical law, those who want state rights, those who want a smaller deficit, or isolationism, or militarism, or business growth, those who want the government to spy on everyone and those who want the government to spy on no one- they are a diverse set of opinions, often contradictory.

If the evangelicals can be appeased with token efforts with no actual policy impact like his touted religious freedom EO as long as conservative SCOTUS picks are ensured, they'll compromise on other things like gay rights when it doesn't really bother them. The freedom caucus on the other hand are just loons put into office for the sole reason of throwing a wrench into the works, and they were going to do that no matter who was in power.


Your listed groups have a tremendous amount of overlap. There is a much greater level of debate had among Democrats, who span the spectrum from hard right wing corporatists to Bernie-style socialists.

The groups you continually cite have very large degrees of overlap, with only a fringe who disagree. The reason it looks like there is ideological diversity is because they do not tolerate even a minor difference of opinion.
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May 7 2017 12:42am
What kind of ideological groups are there in democrats vs republicans?

In democrats, there are third way politicians which encompasses pretty much every single democrat, who are essentially lockstep on all policies. Then the actual voters are either likewise moderates or more anti-establishment bernie supporters- when bernie isn't even a democrat. The only party struggle is corrupt establishment vs populists, when both profess to the same ideologies when asked, but nobody believes Hillary when she says it.

Yet in the republican party, each faction has its own well defined ideological differences. The evangelicals want christian law. They want to ban abortion, they want more ability for the church to influence politics, they want to outlaw gay marriage. The libertarians on the other hand encompass their own spectrum devoted to more civil liberties, and almost all want more gay rights, but some like the paulite kooks are more interested in isolationism and destroying the federal reserve. Yet the neocons are warhawks and big business/bank supporters- they're okay with budget deficits and bernanke as long as the markets are kept freer. Yet the tea partiers are united in trying to lower the deficit and want to tear down big government institutions. Yet working class and bernout republicans are in favor of bigger government healthcare and support full blown universal socialization, they just oppose the establishment- which is where Trump stepped in as an anti-globalist anti-establishment wing at odds with the neocons.

What actual ideological factions are there intra-DNC party? Treehuggers? Communists? All seven members?
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May 7 2017 01:32am
Republicans are significantly more diverse than Democrats. You can split Democrats into 2 or 3 segments whereas you can easily split the GOP into 5.
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May 7 2017 02:01am
Quote (Goomshill @ May 7 2017 02:42am)
What kind of ideological groups are there in democrats vs republicans?

In democrats, there are third way politicians which encompasses pretty much every single democrat, who are essentially lockstep on all policies. Then the actual voters are either likewise moderates or more anti-establishment bernie supporters- when bernie isn't even a democrat. The only party struggle is corrupt establishment vs populists, when both profess to the same ideologies when asked, but nobody believes Hillary when she says it.

Yet in the republican party, each faction has its own well defined ideological differences. The evangelicals want christian law. They want to ban abortion, they want more ability for the church to influence politics, they want to outlaw gay marriage. The libertarians on the other hand encompass their own spectrum devoted to more civil liberties, and almost all want more gay rights, but some like the paulite kooks are more interested in isolationism and destroying the federal reserve. Yet the neocons are warhawks and big business/bank supporters- they're okay with budget deficits and bernanke as long as the markets are kept freer. Yet the tea partiers are united in trying to lower the deficit and want to tear down big government institutions. Yet working class and bernout republicans are in favor of bigger government healthcare and support full blown universal socialization, they just oppose the establishment- which is where Trump stepped in as an anti-globalist anti-establishment wing at odds with the neocons.

What actual ideological factions are there intra-DNC party? Treehuggers? Communists? All seven members?


It's a generalization, but Dems tend to be pragmatists which inevitably leads to more homogeneity, while right tend to be dogmatic idealists (e.g. Christian conservatism, libertarianism).

When one group is focusing on consequentialist prediction of objective metrics and generally want the same things, they will vary less as there will be a general consensus of the best solutions, while the groups on the right each want different goals entirely (libertarians want freedom, Conservative Christians want glory to God, etc.).

People on the left tend to just want people to have better lives. People on the right tend to not, and have other fundamental goals, which vary.

This post was edited by Voyaging on May 7 2017 02:06am
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May 7 2017 08:50am
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May 7 2017 09:02am


voyaging post way off the mark btw.
smearing non-leftists as not wanting people to have better lives instead of recognizing they believe different things might make peoples lives better is a fallacy infesting modern leftist political discourse and leading to much hostility and hysteria.

Rather than democrats being intellectual consequentialists with a firm grip on causality and reality, extremely emotional talking points, demonization and refusal to intellectually address or sometimes even allow opposing views are their prominent features.

This post was edited by cambovenzi on May 7 2017 09:03am
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May 7 2017 10:30am
Quote (cambovenzi @ May 7 2017 09:02am)
smearing non-leftists as not wanting people to have better lives instead of recognizing they believe different things might make peoples lives better is a fallacy infesting modern leftist political discourse and leading to much hostility and hysteria.


pretty much on the nose
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May 7 2017 10:40am
Quote (thundercock @ May 7 2017 02:32am)
Republicans are significantly more diverse than Democrats. You can split Democrats into 2 or 3 segments whereas you can easily split the GOP into 5.


Would you say that Democrats are divided between Leftists and Liberals?'

No Conservatives in the Democratic party?

This post was edited by Skinned on May 7 2017 10:40am
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May 7 2017 10:42am
Quote (thundercock @ May 7 2017 12:32am)
Republicans are significantly more diverse than Democrats. You can split Democrats into 2 or 3 segments whereas you can easily split the GOP into 5.


Maybe along current hot-button topics. I think that perception might exist because Republicans are trying to answer the question of "how much?", while Democrats are trying to answer the question "how to?"

For example, Republican divides might be along "how much abortion should be legal?" Where as Democrats are pretty much in agreement on the issue. But on an issue like green energy, while Republicans are still trying to answer "how much" (usually not much, at the national level), Democrats are busy fighting about what to do once that becomes a priority. Nuclear? Wind and solar? How quickly should we move away from oil? The splintering is at a more nuanced level.

It's also why Democrats have such a hard time doing shit. For the most part they all agree on green energy, but there are some in congress who just refuse to support nuclear energy options. Some aren't open to windmills. And so even though you have an administration that wants to do SOMETHING, nobody can agree on how it should be done.

Republicans just have to go "well what is as backwards and harmful to as many poor people as possible?" and then all agree to do that.
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May 7 2017 10:49am
Quote (cambovenzi @ May 7 2017 10:02am)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_Jm5KCWAAAPTvg.jpg

voyaging post way off the mark btw.
smearing non-leftists as not wanting people to have better lives instead of recognizing they believe different things might make peoples lives better is a fallacy infesting modern leftist political discourse and leading to much hostility and hysteria.

Rather than democrats being intellectual consequentialists with a firm grip on causality and reality, extremely emotional talking points, demonization and refusal to intellectually address or sometimes even allow opposing views are their prominent features.


the hell's a solar worker =_=
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