Look the whole issue here is The USA no longer have that kind of finesse when it comes to handling Geo Political situations and strategy.
There have been terrorist attacks on Israel for the longest time.

But why is it this time it is different ? There are so many reasons that are being discussed, for the past 20 years.
But it is what it is. No point delving too much into it.

All I can say is this.

1. If NATO didn't push eastwards.
2. If Russia didn't ally with China and also in some ways formed a partnership with Iran as says the new Axis of Evil ( Which I think it is exaggerated ) But of course from the West point of view it is that I can understand.
3. Russia wouldn't have open up central Asia for China's Belt and Road .
4. When the Muslims in Mideast , doesn't matter Sunni or Shia saw this including your Hamas, Hezbollah or whatever " terror groups " that felt they have been repressed by the West for the past 60 to 70 years. They saw a chance, an extremely rare chance.
5. BiBi wasn't potentially going to jail for corruption.
6. Sleepy Joe didn't piss on MBS for the Khashoggi drama and call him names ( As you know Royals hate these shit).
7. I think all this might not have happened as it is now.

You would have contained the Chinese through TPP or whatever programs, don't even need to form AUKUS.
The Mid East Muslims wouldn't be making diplomatic missions almost everyone of them apart from Turkey to China.
And all this meetings behind doors with the Chinese, will you support us in this or that way if we do this or that.

USA will still be in a somewhat controlling position as well as the West. And no one will dare do much apart from some random Allahu Ackbars every now and then.

I forgot to mention... the Woke, DEI , LGBTQ Plus, BLM agenda. If that wasn't forced out in such a manner as it is to divide the people, I really don't think what we are seeing now would have happened.

My two cents worth.

I do agree that the eternal victimhood complex needs to stop, they're the most powerful state in the region & operate with impunity. They were supported by the US but losing big wars has consequences. Palestine sided with Germany and they lost, so the allies took a part of the land for themselves and gave it to largely European Ashkenazim who had just been mass slaughtered, I'm not denying it was a naked land grab but it was war. Britain also acquired the region after WWI when the Ottoman Empire collapsed which means they were de jure stateless.

I don't think they're all too greedy, they'd be taking alot more land if they were.

This post was edited by El1te on Oct 9 2024 10:45pm

This is just how the world works, I don't think a lot of people understand the concept.

theyre only powerful because of the infinite arms and $$ from the US, full stop. interesting you should bring Germany into the mix because it is quite an interesting history


https://www.museumoftolerance.com/education/archives-and-reference-library/online-resources/simon-wiesenthal-center-annual-volume-4/annual-4-chapter-17.html

Hitler SUPPORTED Zionism because he wanted Jews out of Germany. there was an intradivision amongst Jews for reasons that we are still dealing with today. The non-Zionists opposed the Haavara Agreement because they hoped that the boycott would pressure the Nazis to restore Jewish rights. In contrast, "most Zionists worked from the premise that the Jewish position in Germany was irrevocably lost and that emigration to Palestine was their only option"

looking at it through this lense, it makes the current Palestinian situation even more depressing

the last paragraph from that article is a real gut punch



This post was edited by gnarjay on Oct 9 2024 10:54pm

tldr

the jews in germany that stayed to fight for their rights were slaughtered, the jews that left were mostly zionists

That wasn't Adolf's position by the time of the war and during the war. Repatriating them to Israel was largely the consensus opinion at the time.. He even said that if the other states opposed Germany's aims he would wipe out the Jewish race, a threat which he later made good on and tried to accelerate out of spite.

what do you mean that wasnt his position??? it was his plan the whole god damn time dude

from 1933-1940, more than 300,000 jews were forcefully emigrated out of germany
before the invasion of poland to kick off the war in 1939, the nazi goal was to systematically isolate jewish germans out of society and the economy to make life unlivable.
it wasnt until after the invasion of poland that hitler switched gears and decided to move/isolate the remaining german jews and subsequently conquered czech, austrian and polish jews to ghettos
then the nazis invaded the soviet union in 1941 with a focus on destroying jewish communities - this is where the killing started
six weeks after the invasion began, the 'final solution' was implemented and all of the jews in the ghettos were sent to concentration camps....we all know the tragedies that followed


his plan the whole time was to expel and much later kill as many jews as possible. he wanted them out

This post was edited by gnarjay on Oct 9 2024 11:22pm

Prior to 1940? No.

Grand conspiracies that the nazis planned the holocaust decades in advance? Its like Hollywood depicting nazis as inhuman bloodthirsty monsters who stomp puppies to death for shits and giggles. When you stretch reality to paint such a picture, you devalue the lessons we learned about the banality of evil and slippery slope. Before 1939-1940, even after the french invasion, Hitler was still waffling on what to do with jews, entertaining ideas like zionism and the madagascar plan rather than a full blown extermination campaign. Even when they started murdering invalids, the backlash was enough he canceled it. Its clear enough from everything we know about the stages of the holocaust that it was only put into motion around the time of the eastern front and mass murders becoming a policy, and prior to that the efforts had been to degrade, isolate and persecute jews through the nuremberg code, ghettos, etc. More a cruel indifference to their deaths, until it later became a purpose to itself. Yet for all the Nazis cared up to that point, ghettos could have just been a temporary measure before Jews were shipped by boat to some far flung island and set loose

I mean we've got a decent enough documentation of when the orders went out and stages of the holocaust were planned. Hitler didn't keep some secret plan from all the rest of the leadership up until that point, that's assigning Hitler a profound level of competence he doesn't deserve, I mean if he was that strategic he would never have invaded the USSR. And today its a good lesson today on how a runaway hatred and campaign of dehumanization can lead a population down that slippery slope. If you are only looking out for people who are secretly planning mass murder, you'll miss all the people who earnestly intend their supposed noble ends, but could escalate into catastrophe.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Oct 10 2024 12:15am

im not sure if youre misinterpreting what i posted or maybe i poorly explained my point but youre exactly right. up until 1940 there was no plan to kill them , he just wanted them out of germany for his goal of a homogenous society.
in the article i posted above there is a consensus among scholars that the original intent behind concentration camps was for them to be temporary incarceration sites before jews were forcefully emigrated out of germany. six weeks after the USSR invasion that plan changed

This post was edited by gnarjay on Oct 10 2024 12:39am

Is entity that has existed for 3,000 years and lived in a region that once held two kingdoms has the right to self-determination?