You focused on the least consequential thing in my list of three, and pretended that was my standard of historical ranking, or even a conception of the historians standard of historical ranking.

I don't think it's unhealthy to consider the characteristics of individuals. Different groups in America have different experiences. And Obama happens to be a member of the group that was enslaved and oppressed in our country. So from a historical perspective, I'm not sure how a major historical event, namely a black president being elected in a country that enslaved blacks and oppressed them, wouldn't be considered in the realm of ranking presidents. I already conceded that historians heavily lean progressive, and they also lean towards events that make history in a progressive direction.

We already know you don't believe that. Your constant defense of Flynn proves as much.

If you wanted to talk about how Trump was a terrible human being, you wouldn't hear a word said from me in his defense. But when we scrub a president from the web on behalf of a singular political party, we've crossed a line that can't easily be undone.



What you said is that Obama will be considered a top tier president, in part, because of the fact that he is black. What order they come in is irrelevant, the question of his race doesn't belong in the top one hundred.

It is unhealthy to assign characteristics to people based on their race. Obama is a biracial man who was raised by white grandparents in Hawaii and took advantage of every advantage that upbringing afforded him. He deserves to be judged according to the success he achieved, which is outstanding considering that he achieved a position in our society that the vast majority of people will never come close to realizing. His success in that role, however, has nothing to do with whether he was black or white, no more than FDR can be considered a great president given the fact that he could barely walk for a few meters unaided. Whether FDR could walk or not is irrelevant, he achieved a political dominance unmatched since at least Washington, and led the United States successfully through a World War. It is completely demeaning to what they've achieved as individuals. Obama is a great man for his time. He achieved far more than the vast majority of men in his position could dream of achieving. But ranked against Presidents? He's lacking. He didn't lead a major legislative achievement. He exacerbated political and racial polarization in the United States. He did not resolve any of the foreign conflicts afflicting the United States at the time. He did nothing to rectify the fiscally insolvent social programs threatening to bankrupt the country.

This post was edited by bogie160 on Jun 14 2021 08:22pm

where am i talking about him being a terrible human being?

i am asking you from a conservative stand point how do you support him when nothing he did was in line with anyone who truly calls themselves a conseverative?

Where have I ever said that I support Donald Trump, either the individual, or his policies?

your consistent defence of him in every thread you post? lol?

This is what you're doing, and it's pathetic.

Trump can be wrong and his critics don't have to be right. Try to think beyond a black and white spectrum.

Order does matter, which is why the legislative achievements were listed first. You are cherry picking.

Obamacare was a major legislative achievement, as was the stimulus and bailouts, and they were the first 2 items on the list you quoted, and Obamacare would have been far better if Republicans hadn't actively stopped the recept of federal funds to cover the gap in coverage between zero and 20k/year income.
Obama didn't do shit to inflame race relations, that was literally Donald Trump who actively worked to keep the Obama is a Kenyan Muslim idea alive.
Being black in America means that to achieve something, you were at a significant disadvantage compared to an equivilant white person. This is not something you can contest, as the data has been clear and abundant on this for literally our entire nation's history.

You are incredibly dishonest.

see his edit. this sums up what you do