Quote (CyrusTheGreat @ Jun 12 2021 07:03am)

Alrighty - here's what I would respond with:

You are not paid well for what you contribute, your productivity is being stolen and wage rises have been below inflation for 20 years.
- Well it's again, hard for me to agree. I wrote a check for a 3 year old car a good 5 years ago and it's still only got less than 64k (and I spent $2,200 in maintenance and TLC out of pocket a few months ago since it's been a handful of years).
- I live in a very expensive area where rents are astronomical.
- I still have a very comfortable savings account (not funded by parents, or handouts, but discipline over the years).
- My kids have everything they'd ever need and in addition, quite a bit of their own money from Christmas and Birthdays (which I paid for) that they got faster than they spent.
- I also donate $50 a month to St. Judes and $35 a month to Shriners (and they get $100/$70 respectively after corporate match).
- If I wasn't paid fairly for what I do, why am I not struggling, can afford to donate (something is better than nothing) and my children are able to live a very comfortable life, too?

Millennials own 20% less of the countries wealth than boomers at the same age, the economy is gimmicked to syphon off wealth to one demographic and that is retirement age white men.
- You do know there are black Millionaires and Billionaires too, right? They're not retirement age white men either. They are the same people who did what they needed to do to obtain the wealth they did in life. That's the beauty of capitalism - the sky is the limit and honestly, this alone contradicts your suggestion that capitalism keeps everyone down. It doesn't, in fact, the opposite. Capitalism is the only system that rewards success as significantly as it does.

I started with nothing and got everything I wanted in life by knowing this system and how to exploit it like the boomers do.
- So then you should be considered pleased with the Capitalist system because it worked for you? Based on this, you put in your own individual efforts to succeed and have done so.
- Knowing you worked to get where you did, you feel someone who didn't is entitled to the same earnings/lifestyle as yourself when they didn't earn it?

The top 1% do not pay close to as much tax as the 99% and when they do pay tax its on the wage they earn which is nothing, they get paid in stock.
- They do in dollars to dollars. Percentages? No. But if we're being fair here - 1% of $1 billion in taxable revenue is $10,000,000. The average person will never pay anywhere near that in their lifetime (and no matter where the money comes from, that % is higher than 1 everywhere), let alone a year. Just because they are able to keep a large sum of their profits (as we all do through our paychecks as well) doesn't mean they aren't shelling out quite a pretty penny.

Half the people in this thread are discussing the majority of low paid jobs being automated, you have people homeless over medical debts you have people relying on charity or food stamps to get by despite working while bezos buys a boat so big its got another multi million dollar boat to dock with..
- My friend, I have gone bankrupt in my life (and some of which was over medical costs). This was a good 13 years ago so it's no longer impacting me at all and I am currently hovering at a score around 810 (No mortgage because I am saving to buy elsewhere than where I am now is considered a negative somehow). The reset button exists if you made poor choices in life and can't afford the bills you acquire as a result. It's not to be abused, though, and after my one string of mistakes, I spent the time and effort to become wise with finances and never have been close to the same fate since.
- You are correct - I am one of them as well. If we put our focus into offering those who jobs that could be automated some better educational opportunities to advance and take on more rewarding employment opportunities, that's the better approach. I can speak from experience when I say I do a job I love and get paid well to do so because I pursued my interests (and I am not talking a free ride through college - I started on my journey 2 years ago and never looked back - mostly self-taught and did pay out of pocket for some basic classes)

This is the best system you can come up with?
Trickle down does not work it never has this envy gaslighting is all about the rich wanting to maintain the wealth gap so they can feel superior and talk about how "hard work" got them to the top as if your average night fill worker works any less hard than middle management..
- Well, I can say that when the past administration was in office, I paid less taxes. I still do now, but, that's coming to a close very soon as we know (I, as a middle class earner have already adjusted my net income to factor in a 7.5% tax increase because all of the money our new administration is literally flushing in handouts has gotta be paid back somehow).
- This is the best economic system I can come up with. Why? Because it doesn't allow those who want to sit around all day and collect a check to live the high life. And, again, I say this as one who has literally been poorer than poor. I'd say the same thing about my 18-21 year old self who fit that same category.

/edit - Also - I am 35 and far from a boomer, so, I have no hidden vested interest and can't afford a $5 million Jersey Shore home either.

Quote (Plaguefear @ Jun 11 2021 07:20pm)

I am 36 and CAN afford a jersey shore home and hard work had nothing to do with it.

Quote (CyrusTheGreat @ Jun 12 2021 09:22am)

Well - if you can afford a $5 million home, then, admittedly, aren't you part of the same problem you claim exists?

Why would you be permitted to have a net worth in the millions, but American capitalists can't.

Also, why would you have such scorn for billionaires if you, yourself have enough wealth amassed to afford a $5 million home?

Idk - that seems contradictory or envious to me when one has more money than they could ever need but still loathes someone with even more....

Quote (Plaguefear @ Jun 11 2021 07:25pm)

Where did i ever complain about millionaires?
My issue is with billionaires, modern day dragons sitting on piles of gold and jewels while people starve.
I do not have more money than i would ever need, i have enough to live comfortably in retirement which is what i am doing.

Quote (CyrusTheGreat @ Jun 12 2021 09:30am)

No... see that's not how it works. I'll need to stop here for a second...

The guy who has more than you isn't the evil one when you, yourself have admitted you have countless times the amount of amassed wealth compared to the average person that you keep to yourself as well. You could feed a lot of people as well if you can afford a $5 million home on your own wealth in current state.

Fact is, if he's evil, you're envious. You have no reason to feel otherwise, as you can afford far more luxuries than 95% of the people in America if you can afford a $5 million home.

So, please be ingenuous here - can you afford a $5 million home as you said before?

Quote (Plaguefear @ Jun 11 2021 07:48pm)

Yes i can, but i live comfortably in a ~$750,000 home and invest the rest so that i can keep up the lifestyle i enjoy in retirement, i do not have spare money to give away if i want to continue retirement so your comparison is ridiculous, bezos just spent BILLIONS of dollars on a boat.. he spent enough money to build homes for thousands of people on a boat so he could show how rich he was.
Pointing out that bezos is a thieving parasite is NOT envy, he is like a vampire, he literally has workers on food stamps.
Amazons entire business model is stealing the productivity of its workers, bezos only makes money if his workers earn far less money than they made him, period.

Quote (CyrusTheGreat @ Jun 12 2021 10:04am)

Alright, then I would respond as such:

Yes i can, but i live comfortably in a ~$750,000 home and invest the rest so that i can keep up the lifestyle i enjoy in retirement, i do not have spare money to give away if i want to continue retirement so your comparison is ridiculous, bezos just spent BILLIONS of dollars on a boat.. he spent enough money to build homes for thousands of people on a boat so he could show how rich he was.
- -This is what-about-ism. Again, 95% of people don't even own a home that costs $750,000. You could also downgrade into a smaller, average $250,000 home and donate $500,000 to feeding the hungry. You'd still be living a very comfortable life.

Pointing out that bezos is a thieving parasite is NOT envy, he is like a vampire, he literally has workers on food stamps.
-- It is, though. You're a millionaire and have plenty of capabilities . This is the same argument I hear regularly from those who dislike others richer - "ask the guy with more money for it, I don't have it". You do have it - you told me just a few minutes ago when you said you can afford a $5 million home. Since that's the case, it's not unable, it's unwilling and the aforementioned.

Amazons entire business model is stealing the productivity of its workers, bezos only makes money if his workers earn far less money than they made him, period.
- - If you have access to the capital you do, somewhere, someone along the way is earning far less money than they made you as well. No matter where you work or who manages your investments, there's people making a lot less than you in that "building" (some of whom may require food stamps themselves - not everyone is a stockbroker at the company). What's the difference, then?

Quote (Plaguefear @ Jun 11 2021 08:06pm)

This is not comparable and you are being dishonest and pathetic in your reaching to try to make it comparable.
No one who worked for me was on any public money but i live in a country where food stamps are not a thing, we actually look out for our society.

Quote (CyrusTheGreat @ Jun 12 2021 10:18am)

Well - to this I would respond:

This is not comparable and you are being dishonest and pathetic in your reaching to try to make it comparable.
- No dishonesty here. Just really pointing out facts. You've said you own a $750,000 home, have investment portfolios and could afford a $5 million beach house in one of the most expensive shore areas in America.
- No one needs a $750,000 house, or ability to buy a $5 million house -- you said it yourself when you were against billionaires. If your heart truly lied with the hungry, I've laid out a perfect plan to help.
- With the average salary hovering around the 50k mark in the US, with your personal wealth, I'd have to say it's easily disregard-able that capitalism is the enemy -- you're a pure bread example of unlimited success based on what you've said.
- This is the same logic you apply to billionaires even though you're a millionaire, which 95% of Americans are not. How does one deduce anything other than envy?
- Why are you getting so angry? I thought we were simply having a discussion.

No one who worked for me was on any public money but i live in a country where food stamps are not a thing, we actually look out for our society.
- Then why even mention food stamps?
- Based on the statement "No one who worked for me", you're a business owner that enjoys all of the luxuries of business owners.
- As a business owner with a 3/4 $1 million home, investments and ability to buy a $5 million home, I really will need you to justify how a system of unlimited opportunity (which you are benefiting from in some form or another - country or origin irrelevant apparently) is the bad guy.

Quote (Plaguefear @ Jun 11 2021 08:22pm)

You completely ignore my points and keep repeating the same bootlicking nonsense.
I was paying $25 an hour for people to literally plug in a power cords and watch some kids run around for a few hours, so no its not comparable, i paid well over industry standard.
The problem with your idealism is that it is a system of unlimited opportunity for a FEW based on the exploitation of the many, you are ok with this, i am not.
End of story really.