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Feb 13 2020 02:03pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 13 2020 01:05pm)
On the flip side, you have a shitton of really poor people, and poor people are much worse off in the U.S. than in most of Europe due to your weaker social security system.

https://i.imgur.com/shlaeoc.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult
https://www.credit-suisse.com/media/assets/corporate/docs/about-us/research/publications/global-wealth-databook-2019.pdf

So going by median wealth per adult, the U.S. ranks in just the 22nd place worldwide, while they would rank 3rd going by mean wealth.

To be fair, the latter surprised me. Didnt think you would rank THAT high up in mean wealth. So while I was technically right in that you arent the wealthiest nation in the world going per capita (Switzerland and Hong Kong have you beat), those numbers confirm the wealth inequality in the U.S. to be absolutely egregious.


Inequality is much better in socialist countries like yours.

This post was edited by Skinned on Feb 13 2020 02:03pm
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Feb 13 2020 02:49pm
Quote (Skinned @ 13 Feb 2020 21:03)
Inequality is much better in socialist countries like yours.


Germany is not a socialist country. :rolleyes:

And low inequality is not necessarily a good thing. Low inequality at a high general wealth level, that's what it's all about. Policies which make everyone equally poor are not desirable.
So when redistributive policies are suggested, it is very important to check if they would also lead to a significant loss of overall wealth.

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Feb 13 2020 03:04pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 13 2020 03:49pm)
Germany is not a socialist country. :rolleyes:

And low inequality is not necessarily a good thing. Low inequality at a high general wealth level, that's what it's all about. Policies which make everyone equally poor are not desirable.
So when redistributive policies are suggested, it is very important to check if they would also lead to a significant loss of overall wealth.


Would you rather live in a country with low inequality like Finland Denmark and Germany or would you rather live and a typical high inequality country like the Honduras, Mexico, Vietnam?

The United States sticks out as the only country with high inequality that has a high quality of living.


I had surgery in Germany and the late 1990s and the health care was definitely socialist. They put a 5" titanium plate with 5 screws in my neck after I broke it. I stayed at Leopoldina Krackenhaus (sp?) a few weeks, had great physical rehab and got a very reasonable out of pocket bill. That is not the experience you have under capitalism. You are very naive as to how much your nation protects its citizens from their Robber Barons. Our politicians work for them unabashedly.

For example Donald Trump is now canceling student loan forgiveness for people who go into fields requiring advanced skills but don't typically pay enough to attract skilled people because you gotta pay bgg off that masters. That is working against the American people.

This post was edited by Skinned on Feb 13 2020 03:10pm
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Feb 13 2020 03:30pm
Quote (Skinned @ 13 Feb 2020 22:04)
Would you rather live in a country with low inequality like Finland Denmark and Germany or would you rather live and a typical high inequality country like the Honduras, Mexico, Vietnam?

The United States sticks out as the only country with high inequality that has a high quality of living.


I had surgery in Germany and the late 1990s and the health care was definitely socialist. They put a 5" titanium plate with 5 screws in my neck after I broke it. I stayed at Leopoldina Krackenhaus (sp?) a few weeks, had great physical rehab and got a very reasonable out of pocket bill. That is not the experience you have under capitalism. You are very naive as to how much your nation protects its citizens from their Robber Barons. Our politicians work for them unabashedly.

For example Donald Trump is now canceling student loan forgiveness for people who go into fields requiring advanced skills but don't typically pay enough to attract skilled people because you gotta pay bgg off that masters. That is working against the American people.


- Countries like Germany, the UK, Australia, Austria, Italy - they all have high levels of inequality. Not to the egregious levels seen in the U.S., but still high. They arent necessarily doing better or worse than countries like Sweden or Denmark. At least in Europe, there is - to the best of my knowledge - no clear correlation between wealth inequality and standard of living.

- Healthcare is one of the few areas where I do support a strongly regulated and redistributive approach, you can call it "socialized" if you want. Still, the healthcare system in Germany (and Denmark and the Netherlands and Austria and Australia and South Korea etc.) is not fully socialized. At least here in Germany, we still have competing insurances and privately run hospitals. The key to our system is that everyone is obligated to have insurance and that the government requires the plans to cover most basic treatment, as well as capping deductibles at a reasonable amount.

- I am aware of how much our nation protects its citizens from the "Robber Barons" in fields like healthcare, consumer protection or worker rights. We are, however, getting plundered in other fields like offshoring, a government-endorsed gig economy, depressed wages, overtaxation of the middle class, bank savings and pension funds being raped by the insane low-interest policy of the ECB, absurd immigration policies putting a strain on the labor and housing markets, getting too little international purchasing power relative to our economy's productivity because the Euro is too soft, having to pay hefty amounts into the mandatory federal pension system even though it's moribund and everyone from my generation wont even get back the gross sum we pay into it, let alone the inflation-adjusted sum, etc. pp.

As I said many times before, if you belong to the top 15-20%, the U.S. is a better place to live compared to Germany, or most of Europe really. For the bottom 80-85%, it's much better here than in the U.S.

- I havent had the time yet to dig into the recent Trump budget cuts, but I dont like the things I've heard so far.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 13 2020 03:32pm
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Feb 13 2020 04:55pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 14 2020 07:49am)
Germany is not a socialist country. :rolleyes:

And low inequality is not necessarily a good thing. Low inequality at a high general wealth level, that's what it's all about. Policies which make everyone equally poor are not desirable.
So when redistributive policies are suggested, it is very important to check if they would also lead to a significant loss of overall wealth.


can you give an example of a redistributive policy that leads to significant loss of overall wealth? people in germany, australia, uk, sweden etc get rich the same way everyone else does. being born into property ownership
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Feb 14 2020 05:11am
Quote (Devil_cuck @ Feb 14 2020 09:55am)
can you give an example of a redistributive policy that leads to significant loss of overall wealth? people in germany, australia, uk, sweden etc get rich the same way everyone else does. being born into property ownership


Most rich people i know in australia got there from the mining boom.
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Feb 14 2020 06:08am
He has never voiced any opinions that are even remotely close to communism, so my answer would be no.
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Feb 14 2020 07:03am
Quote (Plaguefear @ Feb 14 2020 09:11pm)
Most rich people i know in australia got there from the mining boom.


never really lived around mining towns. bloke who runs the corner shop goes off to the mines when he wants a new car tho
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Feb 14 2020 01:11pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Feb 13 2020 11:05am)
most industries would say "why would we refund you on taxes when medicare tax is gone and you now have guaranteed healthcare rather than what we give you." and they'd laugh it to the bank.



Headline: "Communist suggests CEOs should have to walk to work and wants their wives to freeze to death".



I'm not suggesting it, I'm calling for it to be implemented before we have to pull out the guillotines. I'm sure they'd rather walk to work and be a bit chilly than have their heads forcibly removed for no other reason than to hoard a bit more wealth that they could never hope to spend in a lifetime.

But let's remember that Bernie, unlike me, is a moderate social democrat who doesn't want to end capitalism. He's OK with the CEO helicoptering into work and his wife purchasing a new fur coat every week. He just wants them to pay a little bit of taxes.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Feb 14 2020 01:16pm
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