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Jun 12 2016 02:02pm
Quote (Scaly @ Jun 12 2016 01:58pm)
In America? In the west? Or are the vast majority of those killings Muslim on Muslim in Muslim countries?


The vast majority of victims of muslim terrorism are other muslims, largely in the middle east and africa, and some in china, some in the west.
America has since 9/11 been had a relatively low number of terrorist attacks, with the syrian war tying up most extremists to fight over there
Combine that with a relatively well integrated and moderate muslim population in america while the influx to europe is more radical, and america's been spared more than europe, both far more than the middle east.
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Jun 12 2016 02:05pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 12 2016 08:02pm)
The vast majority of victims of muslim terrorism are other muslims, largely in the middle east and africa, and some in china, some in the west.
America has since 9/11 been had a relatively low number of terrorist attacks, with the syrian war tying up most extremists to fight over there
Combine that with a relatively well integrated and moderate muslim population in america while the influx to europe is more radical, and america's been spared more than europe, both far more than the middle east.


Been had!
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Jun 12 2016 02:09pm
Damn, last time I saw the news it was 20 dead. The world needs to snuff out radical Islam like we did with the Nazi's.
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Jun 12 2016 02:10pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 12 Jun 2016 14:42)
You could replace "Muslim" anywhere in your post with "poor people" and "uneducated people" and it would still hold. The driving force isn't Islam, it's living in shit locations with no opportunity and being "collateral damage" in a greater conflict.


I don't think that's always true. I think there is a component of the religion that is the driving force behind the violence we are seeing.

There is definitely a component of Islam that makes its followers more suspectible to radicalization resulting in violence.

The vast majority of Muslims condemn such actions, but it's important to consider that the Quoran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule.

Even though religous moderates condemn all violence, what's stopping the more extreme and radical Muslim followers picking up their religous doctrine and simply acting upon some of what is said?

Of course, there are also segments of the Quoran that condemn violence. But are we surprised that a religious doctrine contradicts itself in multiple topical areas? We see this all the time in religious scriptures, and how do Muslim moderates force extremists to ignore or put less weight into one or more violent parts of their scripture in favor of the more peaceful segments or teachings?

There is absolutely a problem with the religion of Islam right now. In this case we had an American Muslim that was radicalized and committed a horrifying act of terrorism and violence. Obviously there are many factors at play here (cultural, economic, mental health, religion, weapons, etc) but it is simply ignoring the facts to say there is absolutely zero problem with Islam radicalization when there are many segments of their religous doctrine that promote violence and Jihadism.

We have an awfully complicated problem on our hands. Mant factors and aspects at play. But make no mistake, Islam is a part of the equation here. There is a problem.
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Jun 12 2016 02:11pm
Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Jun 12 2016 01:58pm)
I actually did read this, because it was good for a laugh. You literally just misrepresented me over and over again, and the last thing I said to you was that I wasn't going to address anything else you said until you addressed that repeated lie. And hey, guess what you haven't done?

It's okay, li'l nipper. You'll figure it out some day. :(




By all means, run off with your tail between your legs any time I post in a thread, you're always welcome to the same door.jpg as any common rabble spammer.
If you won't defend your posts, nothing will be missed.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jun 12 2016 02:12pm
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Jun 12 2016 02:19pm
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Jun 12 2016 02:25pm
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 12 2016 02:09pm)
Damn, last time I saw the news it was 20 dead. The world needs to snuff out radical Islam like we did with the Nazi's.


"like the Nazis" requires we go in after we get done bombing and build them back up so the same problem doesn't keep repeating. You will never get Republicans on board with that plan.
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Jun 12 2016 02:27pm
More guns in nightclubs shud solve the shooting problem
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Jun 12 2016 02:31pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 12 2016 02:25pm)
"like the Nazis" requires we go in after we get done bombing and build them back up so the same problem doesn't keep repeating. You will never get Republicans on board with that plan.


Germany didn't have a cultural history incongruent with the west, but intertwined with it. Bouncing back from fascism to integrating into EU wasn't hard.
Maybe Japan would be a closer parallel, but japanese cultural again wasn't hostile to western culture after the meiji restoration anyway.
We stayed in Afghanistan and Iraq after the bombings and built them back up with even greater efficiency and infrastructure and less geopolitical resistance than germany did with the USSR, but how did that turn out?
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Jun 12 2016 02:36pm
Quote (ThatAlex @ Jun 12 2016 08:10pm)
I don't think that's always true. I think there is a component of the religion that is the driving force behind the violence we are seeing.

There is definitely a component of Islam that makes its followers more suspectible to radicalization resulting in violence.

The vast majority of Muslims condemn such actions, but it's important to consider that the Quoran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule.

Even though religous moderates condemn all violence, what's stopping the more extreme and radical Muslim followers picking up their religous doctrine and simply acting upon some of what is said?

Of course, there are also segments of the Quoran that condemn violence. But are we surprised that a religious doctrine contradicts itself in multiple topical areas? We see this all the time in religious scriptures, and how do Muslim moderates force extremists to ignore or put less weight into one or more violent parts of their scripture in favor of the more peaceful segments or teachings?

There is absolutely a problem with the religion of Islam right now. In this case we had an American Muslim that was radicalized and committed a horrifying act of terrorism and violence. Obviously there are many factors at play here (cultural, economic, mental health, religion, weapons, etc) but it is simply ignoring the facts to say there is absolutely zero problem with Islam radicalization when there are many segments of their religous doctrine that promote violence and Jihadism.

We have an awfully complicated problem on our hands. Mant factors and aspects at play. But make no mistake, Islam is a part of the equation here. There is a problem.


Gonna' have to disagree here and say that the concerns about the "radicalization of Islam" as it applies to mass shootings is entirely myopic and smacks of low-key Islamophobia.

The majority of mass shootings have zero connection to Islam, let alone ISIS. I mean, to say that "there is a problem" here would mean that we would be in need of a solution. What would the potential solutions be here that address, as your concerns have laid out, radical Islam?
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