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#121
Sep 9 2024 12:53pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 9 2024 01:59pm)
It's simply not true that the vast majority of illegal entrees encountered at the border are stopped. Here's what the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has to say in a recent report published in Jan 2024:



So the CBO estimates that 4.9m illegal immigrants have entered the US in 2021-23, and projects that a total of 7.3m will have arrived throughout the four Biden years (2021-24).

Source:
https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2024-01/59697-Demographic-Outlook.pdf


Hatred of the orange > facts
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#122
Sep 9 2024 12:54pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 9 2024 06:59pm)
It's simply not true that the vast majority of illegal entrees encountered at the border are stopped. Here's what the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has to say in a recent report published in Jan 2024:



So the CBO estimates that 4.9m illegal immigrants have entered the US in 2021-23, and projects that a total of 7.3m will have arrived throughout the four Biden years (2021-24).

Source:
https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2024-01/59697-Demographic-Outlook.pdf


Thanks, that data actually shows an increase in illegal immigration combined with asylum seekers in the last years (at least if I read the charts correctly). Together with the data showing more people being apprehended it seems most likely that there is an increase of immigrants at the border (which causes both more illegal immegrants to get through and more apprehensions).

Apparently there also was a bill to at least make it harder for asylum seekers, that died in congress because of the lack of republican support (at least that how i understand the tkdr of the bill from https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/analysis-senate-border-bill).

I still want to point out that the data suggests an increase in demand for asylum/illegal immigration. This will probably need additional legislation, which democrats tried to establish but the bill didn't pass congress. Feel free to correct me, but is that not how politics is supposed to work?
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#123
Sep 9 2024 12:55pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 9 2024 06:53pm)
Hatred of the orange > facts


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#124
Sep 9 2024 01:02pm
Quote (SkySwallower @ Sep 9 2024 10:25am)
I am not trying to fool anybody. As a non american, I can assure you the rest of the western world is really hoping that you find some common sense and don't vote for trump again. We all can see that Putin will take Ukraine if you do and nobody here wants WW 3.

All I am trying to do is getting you to stop looking at data with an already established viewpoint. Objectively Biden did a lot of good for your country, while Donald delayed your Covid response and killed a lot of your citizens by it. After losing the election he decided to try a coup because he rightfully believes that the only thing between him and a jail cell is politics. That should have been enough to end all support but here we are, defending him because of immigration numbers you do not understand. For obvious reasons nobody brought any sources for "post birth abortions" either.

Trump is the most despicable politician for a long time, while also being incredibly stupid. I honestly can not fathom how you decide that this should be the person representing you.

I am not going to change your already made up mind, but history will judge you and it won't be kind.


"The rest of the world" = histrionic, impotent European bureaucrats who can't even defend the whole of Western Europe from Russia without daddy USA

If you really wanted to deter Russia you would invest heavily in industry & arms, but you don't, you continue leeching off the US teet

This post was edited by El1te on Sep 9 2024 01:04pm
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#125
Sep 9 2024 01:08pm
Quote (El1te @ Sep 9 2024 08:02pm)
"The rest of the world" = histrionic, impotent European bureaucrats who can't even defend the whole of Western Europe from Russia without daddy USA

If you really wanted to deter Russia you would invest heavily in industry & arms, but you don't, you continue leeching off the US teet


That is correct and the sentiment changed with the first trump term. Until then we (mistakenly) believed the US to be a reliable partner, especially fighting for the interests of the west against russia and china.

We learned that not to be true, but we are honestly just not ready yet to lose the US as an ally.
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#126
Sep 9 2024 01:08pm
Quote (El1te @ Sep 9 2024 07:02pm)
"The rest of the world" = histrionic, impotent European bureaucrats who can't even defend the whole of Western Europe from Russia without daddy USA

If you really wanted to deter Russia you would invest heavily in industry & arms, but you don't, you continue leeching off the US teet


Amen, EU problems that their Socialist system doesn't address.

They keep importing immigrants and ignoring the global threat of Russia on their territory.
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#127
Sep 9 2024 01:14pm
Quote (SkySwallower @ Sep 9 2024 12:08pm)
That is correct and the sentiment changed with the first trump term. Until then we (mistakenly) believed the US to be a reliable partner, especially fighting for the interests of the west against russia and china.

We learned that not to be true, but we are honestly just not ready yet to lose the US as an ally.


That is fair and it's great that public sentiment is changing, I wouldn't expect a Trump presidency to abandon Europe, but rather push them into being more self reliant with a firm hand
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#128
Sep 9 2024 01:19pm
Quote (El1te @ Sep 9 2024 08:14pm)
That is fair and it's great that public sentiment is changing, I wouldn't expect a Trump presidency to abandon Europe, but rather push them into being more self reliant with a firm hand


If you think Trump prioritizes peace and order in the western world over Putins interest you have not payed enough attention. It is no coincidence that right wing populism in a lot of western countries is founded heavily by russia, it's the easiest way for them to destabilize our society.
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#129
Sep 9 2024 01:21pm
Quote (SkySwallower @ Sep 9 2024 12:19pm)
If you think Trump prioritizes peace and order in the western world over Putins interest you have not payed enough attention. It is no coincidence that right wing populism in a lot of western countries is founded heavily by russia, it's the easiest way for them to destabilize our society.


We have Trump's 1st term as precedent that he did alot of good and made great progress towards peace, this is the main reason why I see the belief that Trump will throw everything into chaos is not rational, and is instead driven by heavy partisan propaganda

This post was edited by El1te on Sep 9 2024 01:22pm
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#130
Sep 9 2024 01:24pm
Quote (El1te @ Sep 9 2024 08:21pm)
We have Trump's 1st term as precedent that he did alot of good and made great progress towards peace, this is the main reason why I see the belief that Trump will throw everything into chaos is not irrational, and is instead driven by heavy partisan propaganda


We do not really have heavy partisan propaganda in the same way you have e.g. fox news. I can assure you everyone left of the far right in europe is terrified of another trump term, especially because of the implications for ukraine and russia.
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