I don't think there's reason to think the sahel / subsaharan africa would have advanced beyond the high watermark of the pseudoislamic songhai empire circa 15th century. Too isolated, too dependent on slavery and thus not incentivized to develop labor-saving technology, still subject to an unreliable climate and food supply. They didn't have the causal factors to industrialize, so they'd be in mud huts then or now either way

1: That isn't even half the continent
2: Completely inhospitable regions have managed to become major trade and tourist centres elsewhere. That isn't an argument it's speculation.

Subsaharan africa developed completely separate from north africa for the obvious reason of geographical isolation. And it wasn't some total primitive backwater, like I said the songhai empire was located right in the Sahel region in modern day Niger and Mali and was the most advanced and powerful empire in their history, their zenith. It had major trade hubs like Timbuktu with intercontinental shipping. Like all the rest of Africa's empires, it was totally dependent on slavery and never industrialized. They traded salt and gold and iron and brass, but guess what else Timbuktu traded in- right, slaves. Their civilization capped out at the same kind of preindustrial revolution, preagricultural revolution late middle age kingdom as were in europe and asia.

Irrelevant despite it's so-called isolation it was not isolated at all and every centimetre of Africa was manipulated for millenia by Europe, directly or indirectly. Slavery is a quite profitable industry it is hardly an argument that it was incapable of growth. America had slavery once it's doing rather alright. Everything you say is pure speculation.

Slavery predates white (European) colonialism. The Arabs were pretty good at it, before that various types of empires (Egyptian dynasties, Romans, and so on). I don't think it's fair to put a stake in the ground and view history from a specific point where it's most favorable for your argument. If we're going to talk about slavery, we can't just look at the last 400-500 years but acknowledge it's reality and existence before any Spanish or Portuguese ship sailed to the sub-Sahara. What makes the Euros stand out is they were the first to modernize transport with large ships.

France doing very well in Africa recently

What's happening in this pic here? Pls comment ^^

Slavery predates 'white people' altogether, Arabs and Romans as well. Slavery isn't relevant to anything I've said. Slavery is just one tool Europe has used to suppress and exploit Africa for thousands of years. Is it possible that Africa would be worse off without that meddling? Sure. It's also possible that Africa would be better off without that meddling. Unless you have a time machine and can prove Africa would be worse off, you're full of it. Since I happen to know time machines are impossible, that leaves but one possibility.

You mentioned slavery so how does it not have anything to do with anything you said lol.

Your history is a little lacking tbh. No, Europe did not dominate Africa for thousands of years, especially not sub-Sahara Africa. Depending how far back you want to reach you can use the Roman empire as an European power proxy dominating North Africa/Mediterranean but it was subsequently followed by Europe falling off the power grid for over a millennia at least. The Euro explorers didn't really get into sub-Sahara Africa whole scale until much later in history, certainly not 'for thousands of years'.

I don't know if European contact was a net negative for the African continent, certainly no way to disprove it, but you're making some canyon sized leaps of logic. Unless you have some time machine to prove Africa would be better off, you're full of it.

If your argument held true, we wouldn't see North Africa, which was much more exposed to Europeans fairing overwhelmingly and objectively better compared to the sub-Sahara.

Strawman I never once said Europe dominated Africa for thousands of years. Your entire post fails. Try again.

I can't tell if you're purposefully being obtuse or?

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Aug 22 2023 09:27am