And as long as we're debating 'whether Hillary Clinton committed a crime', as if we could somehow pretend its her stirling conduct that spared her from any witch hunts like this:
We already have proof that the exact same legal theory being used by Alvin Bragg that falls apart when applied to Trump in this case would -actually- make Hillary guilty of the same accusation

Remember: We have proof- and Hillary already found guilty by the FEC just this past year- that she illegally funneled campaign funds to Fusion GPS by laundering it through Perkins Coie disguised as 'legal expenses', for something that is clear unreported campaign expense under FEC regulations. The FEC already ruled it campaign finance fraud. And Hillary produced documentation in a New York jurisdiction disguising it as "legal expenses", the exact same term Bragg is using to go after the business documents signed by Trump. Except in the Trump case, it actually does qualify as a personal, legal expense by the FEC's definition, not campaign fraud.


So again, and I can't stress this enough, if we're forced to relitigate the 2016 election and compare this baloney story about Stormy Daniels to Hillary bloody Clinton, then even by that metric we know with a provable certainty that Hillary is guilty and Trump innocent of that charge.
It doesn't mean we should be leading a witch hunt against Clinton, it just colors the absolute hypocrisy and ridiculousness of this case.

We both know that if they had charged both Clinton and Trump you would be defending Trump and lecturing us on how Clinton is definitely guilty.

So I don't get why you are trying to pretend to be neutral by including the last line lol Nobody is fooled.

You're reading into what he said with your own priors, and not understanding what he's trying to say from his perspective.

People can watch and judge for themselves. The point was that playing into the drama of Trump, and opining on the most effective way for the Justice system to carry out it's duties, so that it hurts Trump politically the most, is the wrong way to look at this and talk about it.



Barr was an unabashed political hack as Attorney General who sabotaged the cases that his Fox News-addled brain didn't agree with. To simply look at the one line he wouldn't cross and judge him solely by that rare incident of integrity is hackery.

Trump talked for 4 years(and still does) about locking up Comey, McCabe, and others. He brought the issue up with some of his own people in government, I can't remember specifically if he did with Barr, Sessions, Rosenstein. Again, just because Trump was incompetent at his authoritarianism doesn't mean he wasn't(at the very least) a wannabe authoritarian.

I mean, that's the argument here, right? Trump's people never successfully created a spurious prosecution of high-level officials they didn't like, therefore, Trump acted responsibly, even though his public rhetoric and behind-the-scenes reporting tells us he wanted these people thrown in jail. I guess it's like January 6th. He tried his darndest to overturn the election, but he ultimately failed because of incompetence and the integrity of people like Mike Pence, therefore Trump acted responsibly and honorably. That koolaid is hitting strong.

On the other hand, Biden's public rhetoric is extremely responsible, his DOJ gave Trump an appropriate deference when he stole classified US government documents, and yet they must follow the rule of law, which unfortunately Trump insists on violating repeatedly. Biden's DOJ made the correct decision to appoint a Special Counsel for Trump's investigations, and they also appointed one to investigate Biden's possession of classified documents.

This post was edited by IceMage on Mar 31 2023 03:23pm

I'm sure someone buying into partisan team sports would think that. When my team started acting demented, I changed sides. I didn't have to sacrifice my convictions about civil rights on any neoliberal altar, so you can speak for yourself.



That's very much the argument, the argument we've had for years now. Words vs actions, rhetoric vs outcomes, the player vs the game.
I don't think I'd even qualify Biden's rhetoric as pristine after LARPing as High Chancellor Sutler, but the fact is he and Obama authorized the Russiaburger nonsense to sabotage Trump, his DoJ raided a former president's home on the most hypocritical of pretenses, his allies and acolytes are setting precedent with the first prosecution and persecution of a former president on a transparent legal fiction.

And here you are trying to rationalize it as Trump "insisting on violating the rule of law" when in this case, as I have pointed out, Hillary Clinton provably committed the exact same crime being alleged against Trump, in the same jurisdiction, in the same election. Except she actually did it. Trump didn't. They both made shells for the Nazis, but hers worked, dammit.

Sorry to ask but i guess you prefer DeSantis over Trump, right ?

Well, there's a couple problems with the argument. First off, rhetoric and action behind-the-scenes which doesn't come to fruition obviously matters. Sure, it doesn't matter as much as public action taken, but it has consequences. This isn't a new argument... people talk about the president's bully pulpit. Trump has an especially strong one because his support is a cult. Trump's attempt to overturn the election resulted in his supporters committing an insurrection at the Capitol on Jan. 6th, an event unprecedented in American history. And obviously what the president and his advisers discuss in private signals where they are at in their heads... Trump discussing the declaration of martial law with Mike Flynn and Sidney Powell in the Oval Office is a pretty big indicator where he's at from a mental competence perspective. I know you personally don't care about his demented mind, but that's not an argument for why no one else should care.

Second, the "action" from Obama, Biden, and their administrations were almost always merited. It doesn't matter how many essays you write to spin Russiagate, Ukrainegate, Jan. 6th, or the classified documents case. Trump and/or his cronies committed wrongdoing, which merited investigation and possibly criminal charges.

There's no evidence of Trump trying to weaponize the DoJ to go after Clinton or other such crusades to mirror what Democrats are doing now, and we're talking about a DoJ that was leaking like a sieve and itching for anything they could give to WaPo to make Trump look bad. I'd say the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence. There was no behind-the-scenes actions. Trump came right out and said it day 1, the hour he was elected, that he would let Hillary go off into the woods and be forgotten. Even for a guy who had such shameless rhetoric about it during the campaign, he turned right around and threw it out the window first opportunity, and we haven't seen a single shred to suggest otherwise since. I mean, Trump is many things, but subtle isn't one of them. His flailings around the 2020 election and search for non-existent fraud and exhorting his minions to find a desperate answer- all a very public record.


But again, here we are 6 years later. And you still won't admit that the Obama / Biden / Comey conspiracy to try to link Trump to Russia was unfounded. That there was no meat in that burger. And that Hillary Clinton provably engaged in the exact conduct Trump is being accused of in this case right now. This is all such insanely thoroughly trodden ground, there are saplings rising from the ground watered by the blood of the horse we once beat into a pulp on this spot. Trump didn't do anything wrong with Russia, Hillary actually did cheat during her election in multiple ways, and we're all better served as a country if we put it behind us and move the hell on. But instead here we are, relitigating the 2016 election like we are Sisyphus rolling back down the hill.

You joined the team full of literal fascists. But sure, you LEFT the side that's demented.

Which team is weaponizing law enforcement to persecute their political opponents, trying to criminalize dissent and stifle independent thought, repeal our constitutional liberties, mongering up a war and allying themselves with actual literal Nazi war criminals?
I'm not forced to play your team sports. Last reason I had to be a Democrat crash landed in a field in Eveleth

It would be nice if Donnie and Hillary both got sent to Guantanamo and water boarded every day.