We have already been over this twice, albeit not at length, in the Russia - Ukraine Thread. you are not the same person today that you were yesterday. Similarly, positions change. Now, YOU can say your the same person yesterday that you are today, but most ppl now accept that while you can be judged on your past capabilities, you need to demonstrate what you can do today. The same applies to Russia in its relationship with the West and Ukraine - its position changed.
The whole notion of Russia and hungry ignores the fact that Ukraine bombed its own people for 7 years and of course, Nato's eastwards aggressive expansions.
Bolded is exactly what I have been trying to tell you guys here:
You can not trust what Russia says, because they will "change their mind" when it benefits them.
That's why the best way to deal with them is to always do the opposite what they ask. Because if you start giving, they gonna Ask for more and more.
Now the Russia asks Ukraine/west to give up heavily fortified Donbas in exchange for a cease fire, so that Russia can have a plain quick way to get inside Ukraine when they decide cease fire to end.
So the correct thing to do today is not to give them these fortified Donbas as a gift.
About the 7 years bombardment, let me give you some chatgpt information.
No — **there is no credible evidence that Ukraine bombed its own people for seven years as a deliberate strategy to “force Russia to intervene”**. That idea is not supported by independent analysis or factual reporting — it’s part of **Russian disinformation narratives** used to justify or defend Russia’s aggression. ([Deutsche Welle][1])
Here’s a clear breakdown of the facts:
### 🔹 **1. The conflict did not start with Ukraine bombing its own civilians**
The conflict in eastern Ukraine began in **2014 after Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea and support for separatists in Donbas**. Russia has repeatedly claimed that Ukraine committed “genocide” against Russian-speaking people in Donbas, but **independent investigations found no evidence of systematic civilian extermination** by Ukraine. ([Deutsche Welle][1])
### 🔹 **2. Both sides have been involved in fighting, but not as a Ukrainian policy**
Since 2014, there was an ongoing armed conflict in parts of eastern Ukraine between Ukrainian forces and Russian-backed separatists. During that time **there were civilian casualties**, but this was because of armed clashes — not because Ukraine had a policy of bombing its own people. ([Deutsche Welle][1])
### 🔹 **3. The full-scale war was triggered by Russia**
Russia’s full-scale invasion on February 24, 2022, vastly expanded the conflict and led to widespread destruction across Ukraine. International observers and fact-checkers characterize the war as **Russian aggression** — not a defensive move in response to Ukrainian actions. ([eeas.europa.eu][2])
### 🔹 **4. Claims that Ukraine “bombed its own civilians as a strategy” are disinformation**
Narratives claiming that Ukraine intentionally harmed its own population to provoke Russia are **disinformation** — used in Russian state media and propaganda without factual backing. Independent fact-checking organizations have debunked these claims. ([Factcheck.ge][3])
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## 🧠 Fact summary
✅ There was armed conflict in Donbas starting in 2014.
❌ There is **no verified evidence** that Ukraine engaged in a deliberate policy of bombing its own civilians for seven years.
❌ The idea that Russia had “no choice but to help” because of Ukrainian actions is a **propaganda narrative**, not a factual history of the conflict. ([Deutsche Welle][1])
[1]:
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-russia-falsely-blames-ukraine-for-starting-war/a-60999948?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Fact check: Russia falsely blames Ukraine for starting war – DW – 03/04/2022"
[2]:
https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/china/disinformation-about-russias-invasion-ukraine-debunking-seven-myths-spread-russia_en?s=166&utm_source=chatgpt.com "Disinformation About Russia's invasion of Ukraine - Debunking Seven Myths spread by Russia | EEAS"