Quote (bogie160 @ 6 Feb 2020 16:16)

Which causes irreversible harm to the American military and is quickly replaced by debt interest payments (~$400-500 btn and expected to double in decade) spending directly linked to financially insolvent social programs.

Let's stop scapegoating the military and address the actual issue here.

Quote (Ghot @ 6 Feb 2020 16:16)

Yes. It's not like we're talking lettuce here. Running low on military can't be fixed.. overnight. Take fighter jets for example... ya don't just build one over night. This is true of just about every facet of a modern military. Including, training the people to BE soldiers.
Just the one line per item list of electronics parts we used in the late 70's early eighties was a stack of spread sheet (19" wide?) THREE inches thick. And that was pretty much before computers. JUST electronics.

It would be a godsend for ANY govt. to be able to lower military spending by say, 25% in peace time. But that's robbing Peter to pay Paul. And the bill, when it comes due, in non-peace time, ends up getting paid for in our own human lives.
Seems like a great idea on paper, but in practice, it doesn't work very well.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Feb 6 2020 10:19am)

It reduces those too lol. You just made the argument that X isn't worth saving money on because something else will generate interest later.

"Causes irreversible harm to the military". Funny how you're applying one set of standards to the military and a whole different set of standards to the public.

Yeah there's other issues, but the military is definitely one of the issues. Nobody is scapegoating the military, we're pointing out that there is definitely a problem there but not saying there aren't other problems as well.

Quote (bogie160 @ 6 Feb 2020 16:19)

As I said, taxes go up, spending goes down.

The tax code is a mess, attempts to simplify it (which would increase revenue without necessarily increasing rates) are always crushed.

Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 6 2020 09:24am)

Military spending is already well off highs. There is ample room to reduce spending overseas (see - Europe and the ME) without significantly degrading the ability of the military to operate overseas. There is a pressing need for us to be able to do that (see - China), that I highlighted.

We need to reframe the problem. Education spending isn't it. Military spending isn't it. NASA, science, environmental spending isn't it. Congress's salary and compensation isn't it. The problem is almost entirely with social programs that cost significantly more than our tax footprint allows.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 6 2020 10:23am)

The military budget could be wound down over time. Less new contracts while the existing ones run out, order 20 new jets instead of 30, etc.

Quote (Ghot @ 6 Feb 2020 16:28)

Like I said, it looks good on paper. Let's say the powers that be decide to do as you suggest and only... order 20 new jets. Then a week later China goes crazy, and we NEED all those 30 jets. Where do they come from?

Military spending has long been proven to be more like... hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

Quote (Ghot @ Feb 6 2020 09:28am)

Like I said, it looks good on paper. Let's say the powers that be decide to do as you suggest and only... order 20 new jets. Then a week later China goes crazy, and we NEED all those 30 jets. Where do they come from?

Military spending has long been proven to be more like... hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 6 2020 10:26am)

Because incompetent and corrupt politicians dont even try their best, and are scared to anger the donor class.
If the tax code is too complicated for politicians to see through, hire the best experts you can find. There has to be someone in the country who understands it.

Quote (thesnipa @ Feb 6 2020 10:26am)

and neither side is willing to cut them, just like u said, so higher taxes are the only option.

glad we could work that out.

Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 6 2020 09:35am)

Tax lawyers do, and they're some of brightest minds we have. Unfortunately their job is to reduce tax imprint, not increase it.



Or we can just default, which is preferable (to me) as to compared to giving an ever greater share of our wealth to economic illiterates like Warren, Sanders, and company.

Higher taxation needs to be tied to common sense program reform. Social Security retirement age needs to move up to 72 or higher. COLA increases need to be cut. Benefits to higher earning retirees reduced. Or we can just wait for the program to go belly up and pay out what it actually brings in in terms of revenue.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 6 2020 10:33am)

If you think 10 jets make the difference in the conflict between China and the US, you dont understand the nature of this conflict. This conflict will be won by trade and technology, not by military force. Since both countries have plenty of nukes and a large military, a full-blown war is not an option anyway. If the US had wanted to win this conflict with the use of military force, they would have had to bomb China back to the stone age 15-20 years ago, with hundreds of millions of casualties and gigantic harm to the world economy. Nowadays, it's far too late for even that. Nowadays, an all-out war between these two countries would send all of humanity back to the stone age.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Feb 6 2020 10:35am)

And if we only allow them to get 30 jets, what if the military needs 80? You seriously hate the troops if you don't let them get more jets! Why don't we double military spending? YOU HATE THE TROOPS IF YOU OPPOSE THIS! PLAN FOR THE WORST!