d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Official Political Picture Thread
Prev1114811491150115111525001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 63,058
Joined: Jul 15 2005
Gold: 152.00
Apr 11 2017 10:12pm
Quote (Gastly @ Apr 12 2017 12:09am)
Which works of Marx have you actually read?


Was about to ask :lol:

Maybe he'll post another Mises quote.

This post was edited by Voyaging on Apr 11 2017 10:12pm
Member
Posts: 31,209
Joined: Sep 26 2008
Gold: 0.00
Apr 12 2017 12:30am
Quote (Scaly @ Apr 11 2017 05:37pm)
This.

Socialism cannot be summed up in a sentence but if one were to try then a more accurate attempt may read 'Every member of society deserves equal compassion and consideration from their society and their government regardless of their class, profession or status and should give the same in return.'

Even being 10 times as long as 'hate the man who has more than you' it is still, however, woefully inadequate as a summary.

For me Socialism is compassion for one's fellow man. It is not perfect but all other ideologies for the government of peoples lacks what I believe is an essential quality for a fair and prosperous modern society. Compassion.


This isn't necessarily correct, either.

Socialism is the intermediary between capitalism and a post-capitalist government. While capitalism has achieved great strides in economic progress and upper mobility (which is actually a great, big maybe it did some good things), capitalism has more and more flaws that become apparent the longer it goes on.

For instance, capitalism is actually pretty shit at allocating food, for example. The capitalist US has both an obesity epidemic and a problem with child hunger. Or the fact there is a non-zero number of homeless people with a non-zero number of empty homes. In both these examples, it's because the groups in need lack the ability to generate capital, for one reason or another.

Not to mention, merit, experience, and education are often overlooked in favor of cronies. People don't actually make rational decisions regarding economic decisions, like hiring the most qualified person. Rather, they do things like hiring friends and family members.

Marx hypothesized the best way to transition to the next form of government was for the working class to take control of resources and capital, in whatever way worked. We already have examples of this, such as food coops. The resulting society, where ownership of capital is controlled by people who use their labor to convert that capital from one form to another form, would be called communism. The transitional society where workers acquire ownership would be called socialism.

Quote (cambovenzi @ Apr 11 2017 05:40pm)

If you knew what I know you would be just as dismissive and derisive.
There are catastrophic remedial flaws that have led to countless deaths and unimaginable suffering when people try to implement it.


This of course refers to the Russian and Chinese Revolutions, where socialists seized the means of production by sheer force.

The means of production can be seized in other ways, most notably by purchasing the means from the capitalists. Many capitalists refuse to award portions of profit based on the merits of the worker because they rather enjoy being billionaires. That's not to say they don't contribute anything valuable to the company, on the contrary. Management skills are still skills and they are necessary for a company to function. However, they are paid disproportionately compared to their contributions. We rightfully would find it absurd to pay a janitor millions of dollars each year because he shows up to work with his own tools. Why, then, don't we see the absurdity of paying a CEO or landlord billions just because they bought the work site? They're glorified accountants at that point. The people actually generating quality and services are the people working there.

This is besides the point, though. The reality is the capitalist nations of the world were founded on slavery, colonization, and ethnic cleansing. Free market advocates frequently hand wave away how companies turned a profit because they inflicted famine, murdered local populations, or didn't really pay laborers at all except with lashings. Nor do they recognize things like the Guilded Age, the Articles of Confederation, or the monopolies and cartels of numerous international organizations.

The goal of the capitalist is to make a profit, not act in some altruistic manner to end world hunger and eliminate poverty.

This is all pretty moot, however, because we're talking to this:

Quote (EndlessSky @ Apr 10 2017 02:11pm)
All of this phony blame game comes from Cultural Marxism if you ask me.

Cultural Marxism requires that you blame all of your personal problems on someone else: religion, imaginary burgeois, other people's behavior, etc.


"Cultural Marxism" is a modern version of the phrase "Cultural Bolshevikism," which is the name of the plot Hitler falsely accused the Jews of partaking in to destroy Germany, and thus the rationale used to justify the Holocaust. Of course, the Jews weren't actually planning anything. Yet Hitler needed some way of getting millions of Germans to be complacent with the murder of millions of minorities.

Anyone who uses the phrase "Cultural Marxism" fits into 1 of 2 categories:

1) Derpshits with zero understanding of the word salad they vomit. In which case, their opinions can be disregarded as horrendously uninformed and ignorant.

2) Literal fucking nazis trying to spread antisemetism through euphemisms so the derpshits from category 1 assist them with further genocide.

If you find yourself agreeing with a person spouting off about "cultural Marxism is causing the decay of western civilization," then congratulations! You, too, would have bought into Hitler's bullshit. You also buy into his bullshit that's kept alive by white supremacists.

You should strongly consider how mislead your worldview is or go sky diving without a parachute.
Member
Posts: 33,927
Joined: Oct 9 2008
Gold: 2,528.52
Apr 12 2017 02:21am
Quote (Gastly @ Apr 12 2017 12:09am)
I'll tell you something that'll surprise you:
via a Marxian lense the focus isn't on wealth qua wealth but on (the ownership of) special classes of material things.


Which works of Marx have you actually read?


The Manifesto is the only thing you need to read to understand just how criminal and out of touch leftists are.

It tries to apply the second law of thermodynamics to prove that everyone will eventually be poor, just like ol' daddy Marx himself :wacko:

Quote (sylvannos @ Apr 12 2017 02:30am)
This isn't necessarily correct, either.

Socialism is the intermediary between capitalism and a post-capitalist government. While capitalism has achieved great strides in economic progress and upper mobility (which is actually a great, big maybe it did some good things), capitalism has more and more flaws that become apparent the longer it goes on.

For instance, capitalism is actually pretty shit at allocating food, for example. The capitalist US has both an obesity epidemic and a problem with child hunger. Or the fact there is a non-zero number of homeless people with a non-zero number of empty homes. In both these examples, it's because the groups in need lack the ability to generate capital, for one reason or another.

Not to mention, merit, experience, and education are often overlooked in favor of cronies. People don't actually make rational decisions regarding economic decisions, like hiring the most qualified person. Rather, they do things like hiring friends and family members.

Marx hypothesized the best way to transition to the next form of government was for the working class to take control of resources and capital, in whatever way worked. We already have examples of this, such as food coops. The resulting society, where ownership of capital is controlled by people who use their labor to convert that capital from one form to another form, would be called communism. The transitional society where workers acquire ownership would be called socialism.



This of course refers to the Russian and Chinese Revolutions, where socialists seized the means of production by sheer force.

The means of production can be seized in other ways, most notably by purchasing the means from the capitalists. Many capitalists refuse to award portions of profit based on the merits of the worker because they rather enjoy being billionaires. That's not to say they don't contribute anything valuable to the company, on the contrary. Management skills are still skills and they are necessary for a company to function. However, they are paid disproportionately compared to their contributions. We rightfully would find it absurd to pay a janitor millions of dollars each year because he shows up to work with his own tools. Why, then, don't we see the absurdity of paying a CEO or landlord billions just because they bought the work site? They're glorified accountants at that point. The people actually generating quality and services are the people working there.

This is besides the point, though. The reality is the capitalist nations of the world were founded on slavery, colonization, and ethnic cleansing. Free market advocates frequently hand wave away how companies turned a profit because they inflicted famine, murdered local populations, or didn't really pay laborers at all except with lashings. Nor do they recognize things like the Guilded Age, the Articles of Confederation, or the monopolies and cartels of numerous international organizations.

The goal of the capitalist is to make a profit, not act in some altruistic manner to end world hunger and eliminate poverty.

This is all pretty moot, however, because we're talking to this:



"Cultural Marxism" is a modern version of the phrase "Cultural Bolshevikism," which is the name of the plot Hitler falsely accused the Jews of partaking in to destroy Germany, and thus the rationale used to justify the Holocaust. Of course, the Jews weren't actually planning anything. Yet Hitler needed some way of getting millions of Germans to be complacent with the murder of millions of minorities.

Anyone who uses the phrase "Cultural Marxism" fits into 1 of 2 categories:

1) Derpshits with zero understanding of the word salad they vomit. In which case, their opinions can be disregarded as horrendously uninformed and ignorant.

2) Literal fucking nazis trying to spread antisemetism through euphemisms so the derpshits from category 1 assist them with further genocide.

If you find yourself agreeing with a person spouting off about "cultural Marxism is causing the decay of western civilization," then congratulations! You, too, would have bought into Hitler's bullshit. You also buy into his bullshit that's kept alive by white supremacists.

You should strongly consider how mislead your worldview is or go sky diving without a parachute.


LOL you tried to call me Hitler.

Cute.

This post was edited by EndlessSky on Apr 12 2017 02:23am
Member
Posts: 52,226
Joined: Jan 3 2009
Gold: 8,902.00
Apr 12 2017 06:49am
From Twitter this week regarding PR blunders (paraphrased):

Pepsi: that was the worst ad of the week, possibly the worst of the year.

United: hold my beer.

Sean Spicer: LEEEEEEROOOOOOOYYYYYYYY JENNNNNNNKINNNNNNNNSSSSSSS!
Member
Posts: 32,103
Joined: Dec 29 2009
Gold: 0.00
Apr 12 2017 08:24am
Quote (Santara @ Apr 11 2017 07:42pm)


Pretty bad when even the dictionary is throwing shade at you.

Quote (Santara @ Apr 12 2017 07:49am)
From Twitter this week regarding PR blunders (paraphrased):

Pepsi: that was the worst ad of the week, possibly the worst of the year.

United: hold my beer.

Sean Spicer: LEEEEEEROOOOOOOYYYYYYYY JENNNNNNNKINNNNNNNNSSSSSSS!


This?

Member
Posts: 52,226
Joined: Jan 3 2009
Gold: 8,902.00
Apr 12 2017 09:14am
Quote (Surfpunk @ Apr 12 2017 09:24am)
Pretty bad when even the dictionary is throwing shade at you.



This?

http://i.imgur.com/x1ay51Il.png


Lol, yup.
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Apr 12 2017 09:26am
Member
Posts: 4,783
Joined: Jul 6 2012
Gold: 68.99
Warn: 10%
Apr 12 2017 10:01am
Quote (EndlessSky @ Apr 12 2017 11:21am)
The Manifesto is the only thing you need to read to understand just how criminal and out of touch leftists are.

It tries to apply the second law of thermodynamics to prove that everyone will eventually be poor, just like ol' daddy Marx himself :wacko:

Perhaps you could provide for a quotation of the passages in which this is the case. I seem to have missed them myself.
I mean - to me such a ridiculous assertion seems to be just something that you made up, but seeing that you've read at least the Manifesto as you claim then you should be able to back your assertion up somehow.

(you won't back it up tho :( )


Quote (EndlessSky @ Apr 12 2017 11:21am)
LOL you tried to call me Hitler.

Quote (sylvannos @ Apr 12 2017 09:30am)
1) Derpshits with zero understanding of the word salad they vomit. In which case, their opinions can be disregarded as horrendously uninformed and ignorant..


This post was edited by Gastly on Apr 12 2017 10:01am
Member
Posts: 33,927
Joined: Oct 9 2008
Gold: 2,528.52
Apr 12 2017 10:06am
Member
Posts: 63,058
Joined: Jul 15 2005
Gold: 152.00
Apr 12 2017 11:34am
Quote (EndlessSky @ Apr 12 2017 12:06pm)


Dodge.

This post was edited by Voyaging on Apr 12 2017 11:34am
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1114811491150115111525001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll