didnt say you were.


If you knew what I know you would be just as dismissive and derisive.
There are catastrophic remedial flaws that have led to countless deaths and unimaginable suffering when people try to implement it.
As a so called consequentialist you dont seem to rate that very poorly.
Instead you have feels and economic ignorance.



adjective.. no argument.


Thats a rosier summary, not a more accurate one.

If a man has more and he has come by it without exploiting or oppressing others and uses the excess to the benefit of his society then he is not rejected by Socialism.

But if a man has no compassion for those not as fortunate as him then he is morally repulsive and rightly rejected by Socialism whereas capitalism would embrace him.

On the list of exploitation/oppression: Employing people/wage labour, renting, owning means of production, basic economics textbooks, etc.

Only the last one was a joke, but not really.



Unsubstantiated and opposite day.
Different people have different morals. there are plenty of ways morally repulsive people are punished in a market economy.
What you consider repulsive someone else might think is beneficial and vice versa. It doesn't mean it should necessarily be banned if you dont like them.
Live and let live.. basic liberal values. anything ringing a bell?

Is aggressing against person and property not morally repulsive in your book? Thats frowned upon and violently defended against in a society that values liberty, markets and property rights.
Not so much under socialism.


It would be great if you guys familiarized yourself with some criticisms of marxism before becoming his cheerleader with the 'how stupid, i cant believe you dont like marx and marxism' antics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_Marxism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_the_labour_theory_of_value

I can recommend some free ebooks or extended articles if you prefer, but im not sure you'll even skim the wiki.

Dont take my word for it, heres leftist hero John Maynard Keynes on Das Kapital: "an obsolete textbook which I know to be not only scientifically erroneous but without interest or application for the modern world"
Feel free to direct your outrage at him.

This post was edited by cambovenzi on Apr 11 2017 08:23pm

I'm no champion of Marxism but of socialism.

Everyone loves socialism in relative doses. Fire service, police, military. All socialist institutions. The military, when considered as a self contained unit, is one of the most socialist institutions on the planet. Here in the UK we get socialist healthcare as well - it's great. Nobody gets into horrendous debt because they're ill unless they choose to go private (the option for which I disagree with as it puts strain on the NHS and allows someone to skip ahead in line because they have more money). The most socialist countries are the most happy and some of the most prosperous. Socialism works. It's self-evident.

This post was edited by Scaly on Apr 11 2017 08:36pm

I never said Marx was categorically correct or even mostly correct. I'm saying his work is deeply sophisticated and requires a deeply sophisticated rebuttal for me to take seriously.

Nice of you to say my opinions are feels and economic ignorance when I'm a capitalist and my ethical beliefs are based exclusively on reason.

U r just 2 smart for me tho.

I have plenty of more sophisticated and lengthy refutations of marx at my fingertips, yet brevity is not without value and short accurate jabs are not inherently "stupid" or wrong.


Not a very good one considering you cheerlead for more government intervention and bernie sanders, and haven't demonstrated a grasp of the benefits and workings of freer market capitalism even after all these years.


I'm sure you would like to think so. We're all human. (except marco rubio)


yeah pretty much.

“Ecstatic enthusiasts see in Marx one of the heroic figures of world history, and class him among the great economists and sociologists, even among the most eminent philosophers. The unbiased observer looks on Karl Marx's work with different eyes. … the later volumes of Das Kapital, from the day they were published, were quite out of touch with modern science. … As a scientific writer Marx was dry, pedantic, and heavy. The gift of expressing himself intelligibly had been denied him. In his political writings alone does he produce powerful effects, and these only by means of dazzling antitheses and of phrases which are easy to remember, sentences which by play of words hide their own vacuity.” - Mises

I'll tell you something that'll surprise you:
via a Marxian lense the focus isn't on wealth qua wealth but on (the ownership of) special classes of material things.


Which works of Marx have you actually read?

This post was edited by Gastly on Apr 11 2017 10:15pm