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Oct 12 2023 10:00am
Quote (Goomshill @ 12 Oct 2023 17:56)
The difference between propaganda and journalism is that ever so fragile silvery umbilicus tethering the truth to reporting. When the Kuwaitis arranged for fake testimony claiming events that never happened and it gets repeated uncritically by the west, that's propaganda. When media outlets report accurately on well evidenced atrocities and you still dismiss it out of hand as propaganda, its no different than holocaust denialism. Clearly the logical next step is to dismiss the pictures of desecrated baby corpses as elaborate forgeries created by hollywood because the sheets wouldn't ripple like that on the moon's surface without a wind.


usually you try not to announce your slippery slope fallacies that clumsily. what's wrong, are you too emotional or just running out of pre-cooked propaganda talking points?
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Oct 12 2023 10:02am
Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 12 2023 10:41am)
The message was basically "leave gaza city and the immediate area surrounding rocket launch sites", that was not heeded.

https://i.redd.it/3hpu52lh2ktb1.jpg


As you know, from Netanyahu warning to first building destroyed, 12 hours in between?

If you’re a family, it isn’t easy packing and leaving a congested (understated) city in this timeframe

It is even harder when the roads and infrastructure are being destroyed

And close to impossible without water, electricity, power

Iirc gas stations were completely empty as well within hours and weren’t getting refilled

It’s hard for some of us to imagine cuz I would guess we are all into our 30s right now. But let’s remember how responsible we were at 18 years old. It’s really easy to judge and say just leave but when you are resource starved, without any realistic outs, and your brain isn’t even developed yet - the results here are just really predictable.

Maybe it’s becoming a parent myself that’s made me Empathetic to the idea moving my life in a few hours and if I’m Unable to due to forces beyond my control, the consequence is death for my family? I have a newborn and a 2 year old, what would I do for my daughters if I didn’t have food, energy, water, aside from cry ( but I’ll be dehydrated and ensure I’m saving all my water for my family so I won’t be able to do that)

This post was edited by Bazi on Oct 12 2023 10:13am
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Oct 12 2023 10:02am
Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 12 2023 10:41am)
The message was basically "leave gaza city and the immediate area surrounding rocket launch sites", that was not heeded.

https://i.redd.it/3hpu52lh2ktb1.jpg


To be fair to population density maps that's like a chart of the temperature of the sun's core that truncates to a range starting at 25,000,000 F
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Oct 12 2023 10:02am
Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 12 2023 12:56pm)
The difference between propaganda and journalism is that ever so fragile silvery umbilicus tethering the truth to reporting. When the Kuwaitis arranged for fake testimony claiming events that never happened and it gets repeated uncritically by the west, that's propaganda. When media outlets report accurately on well evidenced atrocities and you still dismiss it out of hand as propaganda, its no different than holocaust denialism. Clearly the logical next step is to dismiss the pictures of desecrated baby corpses as elaborate forgeries created by hollywood because the sheets wouldn't ripple like that on the moon's surface without a wind.


"It's different this time!!!" Battle cry of the American empire lmao
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Oct 12 2023 10:05am
Quote (fender @ Oct 12 2023 06:51pm)
it's ridiculous really. basically everyone rightfully denounced the atrocities by hamas terrorists. they murdered an tortured countless innocent civilians, many of which children, women, and babies. no one is denying that.

obviously it's in the interest of israel to exaggerate the atrocities in order to make their own atrocities look more "justified", but i don't believe for a second that lifelong career politicians (netanyahu, biden...) made their decisions based on the number of beheaded babies. that's just a way to appeal to the public and get support or at least sympathy for their own cruel decisions.

"yes sure we're going to murder at least 20 times as many children with our assault on innocent civilians, but at least we don't behead them. they will starve, freeze, be crushed by collapsing building, burn to death, or die in explosions and gunfire. no beheadings and barely any rape though, because we are the good guys."


Take an action and host a Palestinian family. Be part of the solution.
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Oct 12 2023 10:07am
Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 12 2023 09:41am)
The message was basically "leave gaza city and the immediate area surrounding rocket launch sites", that was not heeded.

https://i.redd.it/3hpu52lh2ktb1.jpg


Have you ever had to evacuate in your life? My family has and it sure didnt happen within 12 hours nor did the majority of people.

Look at the NWT this year even, they had to give them a week for people to get out. Obviously wildfires dont potentially offer the same threat as being bombed to death so its not a great comparison, but these people are presumably used to being part of a war torn society.

This post was edited by SBD on Oct 12 2023 10:17am
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Oct 12 2023 10:12am
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Oct 12 2023 11:02am)
"It's different this time!!!" Battle cry of the American empire lmao


The way people act makes me think sane political theory is a knifes edge, with so many tankies and conspiracy nutters falling off one side and neocons and reactionaries the other. To swallow propaganda uncritically, or to engage in lunatic conspiracy theories. But whenever I look at the actual cases and evidence, its always transparent and mystifies me how anyone gets it wrong. Only a moron could watch the white helmets in Syria and think they aren't being spooned a crafted and micromanaged PR campaign when they make mistakes like using their sound stages to do the mannequin meme. Only a moron could think that 9/11 being an inside job is revealed by making oragami swans out of dollar bills. Staying somewhere in the sane middle was never a challenge.

Its 2023, the holocaust was real, Saddam's WMDs weren't. People who uncritically reject the facts before them are just as blind as those that uncritically embrace the lies, and both of them have all the mental capacity of the cellular automaton in Conway's Game of Life.
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Oct 12 2023 10:22am
Quote (Bazi @ Oct 12 2023 11:02am)
As you know, from Netanyahu warning to first building destroyed, 12 hours in between?

If you’re a family, it isn’t easy packing and leaving a congested (understated) city in this timeframe

It is even harder when the roads and infrastructure are being destroyed

And close to impossible without water, electricity, power

Iirc gas stations were completely empty as well within hours and weren’t getting refilled

It’s hard for some of us to imagine cuz I would guess we are all into our 30s right now. But let’s remember how responsible we were at 18 years old. It’s really easy to judge and say just leave but when you are resource starved, without any realistic outs, and your brain isn’t even developed yet - the results here are just really predictable.

Maybe it’s becoming a parent myself that’s made me Empathetic to the idea moving my life in a few hours and if I’m Unable to due to forces beyond my control, the consequence is death for my family? I have a newborn and a 2 year old, what would I do for my daughters if I didn’t have food, energy, water, aside from cry ( but I’ll be dehydrated and ensure I’m saving all my water for my family so I won’t be able to do that)


Quote (SBD @ Oct 12 2023 11:07am)
Have you ever had to evacuate in your life? My family has and it sure didnt happen within 12 hours nor did the majority of people.

Look at the NWT this even, they had to give them a week for people to get out. Obviously wildfires dont potentially offer the same threat as being bombed to death so its not a great comparison, but these people are presumably used to being part of a war torn society.


don't get me wrong, 12 hours wasn't enough. but the idea that all of gaza is being carpet bombed and there's no where that is safe is false.

Gaza city to Al Mughraqa is an hour and a half walk. i'd have my kids and wife over my shoulder running with nothing but the clothes on our backs if need be.

i'm more inclined to believe Hamas threatened to shoot people fleeing on sight than i am to believe the narrative that there was no escape.

Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 12 2023 11:12am)
The way people act makes me think sane political theory is a knifes edge, with so many tankies and conspiracy nutters falling off one side and neocons and reactionaries the other. To swallow propaganda uncritically, or to engage in lunatic conspiracy theories. But whenever I look at the actual cases and evidence, its always transparent and mystifies me how anyone gets it wrong. Only a moron could watch the white helmets in Syria and think they aren't being spooned a crafted and micromanaged PR campaign when they make mistakes like using their sound stages to do the mannequin meme. Only a moron could think that 9/11 being an inside job is revealed by making oragami swans out of dollar bills. Staying somewhere in the sane middle was never a challenge.

Its 2023, the holocaust was real, Saddam's WMDs weren't. People who uncritically reject the facts before them are just as blind as those that uncritically embrace the lies, and both of them have all the mental capacity of the cellular automaton in Conway's Game of Life.


this shit killed in middle school tho



This post was edited by thesnipa on Oct 12 2023 10:25am
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Oct 12 2023 10:24am
Quote (EA7 @ Oct 12 2023 04:47am)
I wasn't aware there was a third side involved. Care to elaborate?


Good one.. care to provide some evidence?


Or just spout off some tin foil hat conspiracy shit

You are a weirdo

This post was edited by SlamFkingDunk on Oct 12 2023 10:24am
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Oct 12 2023 10:27am
Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 12 2023 10:22am)
don't get me wrong, 12 hours wasn't enough. but the idea that all of gaza is being carpet bombed and there's no where that is safe is false.

Gaza city to Al Mughraqa is an hour and a half walk. i'd have my kids and wife over my should running with nothing but the clothes on our backs if need be.

i'm more inclined to believe Hamas threatened to shoot people fleeing on sight than i am to believe the narrative that there was no escape.


I mean you have people immediately trying to leave their home to advertised shelters like UN schools which Israel bombed.
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