I worded my question poorly in my prior post, so I can see why people might have this response. Let me reframe: Where is the 'mistake' that 10/7 is in with regards to the the chain of analysis from Israel's perspective? Is it in not having the intelligence info, or in responding/making decisions about that intelligence info?

There is not. Much like "just questioning" the Holocaust gets reduced to suggesting it never happened and was staged/they deserved it/it was their fault etc. Questioning 10/7 is roughly equivalent to questioning the Holocaust

I agree and understand your point that that isn't what you're suggesting, and that you're legitimately questioning the events. We should be allowed to question things.

This post was edited by El1te on Aug 5 2024 06:40pm

My question is coming from assuming both are true. Can you tell me which ones you think are actually false:

1. 10/7 is not Israel's fault.
2. Israel had a security failure as part of a much larger tapestry of events on 10/7.

I think both of these are true statements. Do you?

The security failure was in Isreal trusting the border fortifications around Gaza too much although it was easy to just fly over them. And in not having enough quick response troops on standby in the southern parts of the country where the slaughtering took place and local police was outmatched by hundreds of armed fighters.

I would agree with both of those statements - a caveat being that a gross security failure on Israel's part (which I believe is true) can be interpreted as them being at fault, but I disagree with this and see the fault squarely with the perpetrators. It would otherwise be blaming the victim.

When this 1st happened, i had the same type of question really, and i generally fall on the pro-Israel side. How does a country with such a sophisticated human intelligence network not get wind of something this scale. Mossad is legitimately a top 3 intel agencies, maybe not number 1 because the US far outspends them but on a dollar spent per unit of effective output for sure 1 or 2. Sow how do they not see this coming? It's possible they expected something to happen but maybe more of the same, ala rocket barrage, same MO they've witnessed for the last 100 times, they probably never expected paragliding Hamas militants or literally thousand+ militants breaching their physical border. But tbh, I don't know if they knew or to what extent they knew and find it pretty pointless to assume that they knew exactly what would happen and let it happen precisely because it would give them casus belli to go and get the mission done once and for all.

Idk man, it's easy to fall into the conspiracy trap, where 9/11 was an inside job, or 10/7 was they let it happen for a bigger purpose, and so on, but i try to steer away from that type of thinking, because ultimately it's not provable and not productive.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Aug 5 2024 07:13pm

One factor that a lot of folks imho underestimate is how big the death toll of these attack was if you look at it by scale. Israel has a population of just 9.9 million and lost 1175 lives. For comparison, the US officially has some 336 million people, or 34 times the population of Isreal. By scale, the loss suffered by Isreal is equivalent to the US losing 40 thousand people in one single attack, or 13 times the death toll of 9/11.

Is it really plausible that nefarious forces within Isreal's agencies intentionally allowed such an attack to take place to serve some vague strategic goals?

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 5 2024 07:47pm

For sure. I think one can sanely inquire about the strategic utilization of public/international messaging that may potentially happen in any one conflict and that Israel is subsequently not uniquely immune from, without falling into blaming Israel or falling into conspiratorial rabbit holes.

IMO it's not even comparable to 9/11. 9/11 had alot of deaths but had no pre-historic butchery, rape, beheading, slaughter of infants, immolation, and hostage taking and torment. As I've said before, it's an absolute absurdity that the perpetrators are allowed to even exist anymore, this sort of stuff the world had mostly eradicated

This post was edited by El1te on Aug 5 2024 09:01pm

Hamas literally went medieval on its victims...