Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 16 2021 01:35pm)

The argument was not about the magnitude of medical costs, it was about the idea that an individual who cannot provide for his medical treatment out of his own means (no matter how cheap or expensive it would be) is entitled to have it covered by society. Throughout most of human history, it was handled via charity provided and funded by volunteers.



Your claim that "If someone dies because they can't pay a medical bill, in a country that has the means to help that person, then that's blood on capitalism's hands." is almost comical in its overgeneralization and lack of nuance.

Also, the equivalent situation frequently arose and still arises in communist countries where the state-run healthcare system does not provide certain treatments although it technically could. So instead of not getting the treatment that you need because you lack the financial resources, you have the situation where someone is at the mercy of the state-run bureaucracy and just falls through the cracks. By this standard that you introduced, every society with a non-perfect healthcare system has "blood on its hands". :rolleyes:

Quote (duffman316 @ Jul 16 2021 01:54pm)

The real question is would you rather struggle with money for medical treatments or struggle with bureaucracy for medical treatments? At least you can vote to improve access to healthcare in a universal healthcare system. What options do you have in the private system if you don't have money?

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 16 Jul 2021 19:40)

If somebody starves under Mao, that's communism, but if somebody can't get healthcare under Biden, that's not capitalism?

I see both as that thing.

Quote (Leevee @ 16 Jul 2021 19:42)

You pretending that this statement should indeed be kept without any nuance whatsoever, and pretending not to realize that it's a lazy explanation of my opinion, makes your response moot.

Quote (Leevee @ 16 Jul 2021 18:27)

f someone dies because they can't pay a medical bill, in a country that has the means to help that person, then that's blood on capitalism's hands. No need to make it any more complicated than that.

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And the same goes for you thinking that my criticism against capitalism implies support for communism.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 16 2021 01:08pm)

Famines and shitty food supply are a staple of communist countries and encountered in almost all of them.
People being unable to afford even basic healthcare, by contrast, is not a feature of capitalism, it's pretty much exclusively a MURICA thing. Other capitalist first world countries do not have this problem to nearly the same degree as the U.S.
(Developing countries will struggle to provide healthcare to their citizens irrespective of their economic model because of a general lack of resources and organization.)

Quote (Doggyfood @ 16 Jul 2021 19:50)

To your first praragraph:
That charity is gone. If you do not think the state should pay the bills of those who cannot afford it and no charity exists to fill the role, what should happen to the poor?

Follow your beliefs to their logical conclusion and embrace it.

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To your second paragraph, when state-run healthcare fails someone and causes them to die, that is indeed blood on its hands.

Do you have any reason to believe it fails more people than a private system with insurance?

Quote (EndlessSky @ Jul 16 2021 02:04pm)

The times when Communism does work are when people do it voluntarily.

Even Jesus said this.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 16 2021 02:16pm)

The state should create the conditions under which (virtually) everyone can provide for himself and is not dependent on handouts to make ends meets. The goal is to ensure that most people can afford their bills. And yes, this includes some sensible, targetted regulations of capitalism and the healthcare system. Cutthorat capitalism is not the solution.



The healthcare system in socialist Eastern Europe was indeed inferior to that of capitalist Western Europe. It is indeed the healthcare systems in Western Europe which are the gold standard for how things should be run. That the American healthcare system is so shitty that it struggles to outperform that of communist shitholes is an indictment against the American system, not a validation of the commie healthcare.

Quote (SanduLungu @ Jul 13 2021 02:52pm)

one of my managers went to shenzen multiple times. mostly lambos and ferraris on the streets.

he said you can do anything in China as long as you follow two simple rules:

you don't break their laws
you respect the ruling party

Quote (Doggyfood @ Jul 16 2021 02:19pm)

I don’t think Jesus is the neoliberal you think he is

Luke 3:11
English Standard Version
11 And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics[a] is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”

1 John 3:17
English Standard Version
17 But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?