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Sep 14 2020 03:48am
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 14 2020 05:26am)
I know, Ghot. I was not addressing that point to you, merely attempting to help to express that the people you're talking to don't understand things on any scale large enough that what you were saying mattered.




Oh they understand...they just refuse to admit it. :D
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Sep 14 2020 09:44am
Quote (Ghot @ Sep 14 2020 10:10am)
Good thing, that through the electoral college... it does. If not, this whole country would be run by California and New York.


So instead, we choose to give voting rights to square miles of land instead of actual people. Got it.

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 14 2020 10:53am)
Take it down to a micro level, stop focusing on such a macro level. Make it personal, so it's more understandable. For example:

Imagine that you, a person, own a property, with a house, a barn, and a greenhouse. You have a family of 5, couple cars. Couple are children, you're husband and wife, and you have a working or college child. You pay your taxes, keep a clean yard, a swept sidewalk, and do all your duties as a good, upstanding citizen.

Now, next door, there's a section 8 housing complex of 30 homes full of nothing but single mothers, with an average of two children each. It's run down, somewhat crime ridden, lawns are shit, and dirty as fuck. Your houshold, though it holds 5, only has 3 that can vote. The housing complex has 30 who can vote. Now, those 30 look at you and say, "They have more, we want that." So they hold a vote on whether or not property tax rate should be raised from 1.39% to 50%. Vote passes, 30 to 3. Of course, right? They don't pay property taxes, how does it harm them?

Now, let's face it, you had your plan and it was working out, but now you're swamped. 50% property tax rate? Your $200K house now just popped a $100K/year rent cost. Sorry, you can no longer afford to live there. Your choice? Pick up and move, or eventually lose everything you have, and end up in section 8 yourself.

So let's say you pick up and move. Okay! Due to the law that was passed, your property now has a basic 10 year cost of $1m in taxes, let alone the $200K property value. Yet it's still a basic 5 person home with enough of a yard to justify a barn and a small greenhouse. Good suburban home, worth exactly what you thought you were going to pay. So, who's gonna buy? Answer: Nobody is going to buy it for the house, or the barn, or the greenhouse. A developer will buy it, and build section 8 housing. The developer will profit, and now your lot is going to turn into the same exact garbage as your neighbor's lot.

That is the basic lesson of the tyranny of the majority. They THOUGHT they were voting in something that would help improve their situation. Instead, they forced you out (or into their situation as well). A developing company will profit, the government will profit as they now will gain control over many more families at the medial price of development, and there will be that many more people who will vote to take shit away from others, to (not) give to themselves.

This is exactly what major failing cities like Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, etc. do to the state that supports them. They take all their shit, and utilize it to support the metro areas. Meanwhile, because the voter base that makes it possible expects free shit, they expand the free shit. And as the true voter base (people wanting free shit) gets more, they want more. And more. And more. In order to continue providing more, as you're driving out those who're providing that more, or bankrupting them and putting them into the same "beg not work" situation you have to expand the area of influence, gain a wider voting base. You also have to infringe more into higher and higher levels of income, stock, property, and business. But as you're doing so, you start losing all your industry, skilled workers, and innovators. Why? Well, ask Elon Musk.

The reason the Electoral College exists is to prevent the simple tyranny of the majority from destroying the liberty of all. The Constitution expressly forbids unwilling labor. It's considered slavery. But if all it takes is a simple majority vote to take all the fruits of a person's labor, that labor has just become unwilling. Part of what the electoral college does is say, "Just because there are fewer people in these 50 counties than those 3 counties doesn't mean you can take all our shit to appeal to your voting base. Instead, you have to work and negotiate with each other to make things work. And if cities implement terrible policies, and all that's left are the beggers living off the state (including the elected officials themselves)? Then the city fails, people move, and the businesses start up elsewhere.

The system works. The attempt to burn everything down is merely another effort by the hands out crowd to take by force what they refuse to produce for themselves.


You explain the idea very well, but that does not mean that the idea is objectively good.

What you're saying is that certain ideologies / concerns (e.g. people will vote for things, not knowing that those things will backfire) are built into the system, which essentially implies that part of the decision is being made over the heads of the voters, instead of it being made democratically. As long as there will be multiple parties representing multiple demographic groups, you'll never be able to make everyone agree with a system that does not count votes in a neutral way.
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Sep 14 2020 10:26am
Quote (Leevee @ Sep 14 2020 10:44am)
So instead, we choose to give voting rights to square miles of land instead of actual people. Got it.



You explain the idea very well, but that does not mean that the idea is objectively good.

What you're saying is that certain ideologies / concerns (e.g. people will vote for things, not knowing that those things will backfire) are built into the system, which essentially implies that part of the decision is being made over the heads of the voters, instead of it being made democratically. As long as there will be multiple parties representing multiple demographic groups, you'll never be able to make everyone agree with a system that does not count votes in a neutral way.


while the EC is flawed the downfalls of leaving it are something you Eu people will never understand. you're in small countries the size of our states, relatively, and are allowed to make decisions based on what the local norms of those small countries decide.

imagine if you will a fully United EU, rather than a truncated level of self governance with relatively small amount of common laws. and imagine something like COVID and the UK and France making desisions for all of EU, even sparsely populated regions of northern Finland. 100 eu fines required for being outside without a mask, for both UK subway riders and a fisherman in the harbor of Oslo alone on his boat. etc.

these are of course extreme examples, but the idea of being governed in perpetuity by New Yorkers, Californians, and Floridians terrifies this Wisconsin boy.
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Sep 14 2020 11:00am
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 14 2020 06:26pm)
while the EC is flawed the downfalls of leaving it are something you Eu people will never understand. you're in small countries the size of our states, relatively, and are allowed to make decisions based on what the local norms of those small countries decide.

imagine if you will a fully United EU, rather than a truncated level of self governance with relatively small amount of common laws. and imagine something like COVID and the UK and France making desisions for all of EU, even sparsely populated regions of northern Finland. 100 eu fines required for being outside without a mask, for both UK subway riders and a fisherman in the harbor of Oslo alone on his boat. etc.

these are of course extreme examples, but the idea of being governed in perpetuity by New Yorkers, Californians, and Floridians terrifies this Wisconsin boy.


This only explains why 1 ridiculously powerful president is a terrible idea. It does not mean that this president should be elected undemocratically.
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Sep 14 2020 11:23am
Quote (Leevee @ Sep 14 2020 12:00pm)
This only explains why 1 ridiculously powerful president is a terrible idea. It does not mean that this president should be elected undemocratically.


you're obsessed with a single resident instead of a single set of norms. whereas the EC controls for residents via electors greatly hurting your stance. small states in the middle of the country, deep south, or rust belt must band together to have their voices heard at a level the same as a single state on the coast. if one falters the coasts generally win, PA, WI, OH, SC, etc. any one of them falls and the majority rules, if all can withstand the minority rules. and it's about 50-50 what will happen, dems do win battleground states. the GOP never wins coastal states.
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Sep 14 2020 11:27am
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 14 2020 12:23pm)
you're obsessed with a single resident instead of a single set of norms. whereas the EC controls for residents via electors greatly hurting your stance. small states in the middle of the country, deep south, or rust belt must band together to have their voices heard at a level the same as a single state on the coast. if one falters the coasts generally win, PA, WI, OH, SC, etc. any one of them falls and the majority rules, if all can withstand the minority rules. and it's about 50-50 what will happen, dems do win battleground states. the GOP never wins coastal states.


Coasts have more people and make more money.

Why should we pander to the flyovers again?

#ConservativeCucks #LiberalsRule #911InsideJob #ILoveSoros
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Sep 14 2020 11:31am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 14 2020 12:27pm)
Coasts have more people and make more money.

Why should we pander to the flyovers again?

#ConservativeCucks #LiberalsRule #911InsideJob #ILoveSoros


i find most people critical of the EC don't realize electors exist and dont realize their states already have more votes.

also most are just salty HRC's strategy of trying to only play home games vs sure wins didn't work. i know people in the midwest have dirty hands compared to the manicured coastal elites but it's not contagious for someone afraid of hard work.
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Sep 14 2020 11:42am
Quote (Leevee @ Sep 14 2020 11:44am)
So instead, we choose to give voting rights to square miles of land instead of actual people. Got it.




No... we give voting rights to ALL the states, based on population.

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Sep 14 2020 12:31pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 14 Sep 2020 13:31)
i find most people critical of the EC don't realize electors exist and dont realize their states already have more votes.

also most are just salty HRC's strategy of trying to only play home games vs sure wins didn't work. i know people in the midwest have dirty hands compared to the manicured coastal elites but it's not contagious for someone afraid of hard work.

look who you are replying to lmao
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Sep 14 2020 12:32pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 14 2020 01:27pm)
Coasts have more people and make more money.

Why should we pander to the flyovers again?

#ConservativeCucks #LiberalsRule #911InsideJob #ILoveSoros


Why are those states in debt then?
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