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Dec 10 2017 09:40am
united states of europe

everyone who seriously thinks such a soviet union 2.0 could work should visit a doctor

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 10 Dec 2017 13:11)
thats exactly the issue: if the EU becomes more homogeneous, it means that the standard of living in france/germany/netherlands would move a few steps in the direction of where countries like poland or bulgaria are atm. thats a really tough sell to voters in those countries, dont you think?


well, if our european elitists cant bring the lower standard countries up to our standards then we will have to go down....
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Dec 10 2017 11:05am
Quote (ampoo @ Dec 10 2017 04:40pm)
united states of europe

everyone who seriously thinks such a soviet union 2.0 could work should visit a doctor



well, if our european elitists cant bring the lower standard countries up to our standards then we will have to go down....


Would you agree that the best thing for Europe is the dissolution of the EU and a democratic replacement that just focuses on trade? No courts, no open borders (unless 2 individual countries agree a deal between themselves), no shared EU budget.
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Dec 10 2017 11:35am
Quote (dro94 @ 10 Dec 2017 18:05)
Would you agree that the best thing for Europe is the dissolution of the EU and a democratic replacement that just focuses on trade? No courts, no open borders (unless 2 individual countries agree a deal between themselves), no shared EU budget.


imho that would be a step in the right direction. I would perhaps still allow the EU to deal with customer protection cases - in this area, size really does matter. companies like google, facebook and friends, or banks, could perhaps give up on a single european country if they dont like their regulations. but no global corporation can give up the entire european market.
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Dec 10 2017 11:46am
Quote (dro94 @ 10 Dec 2017 18:05)
Would you agree that the best thing for Europe is the dissolution of the EU and a democratic replacement that just focuses on trade? No courts, no open borders (unless 2 individual countries agree a deal between themselves), no shared EU budget.


yep, this EU has to be scrapped and rebuilt to concentrate on the basics again

open borders in the EU are alright and could stay that way with effective EU outer border protection and by realizing police concepts for controls within the EU that already exist

however the current EU is neither able nor willing to do that and having the police look for suspicious romanian cars (just an example) is of course racism
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Dec 10 2017 12:34pm
Quote (ampoo @ 10 Dec 2017 18:46)
yep, this EU has to be scrapped and rebuilt to concentrate on the basics again


hopefully people like you arent deciding things like this.
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Dec 10 2017 12:59pm
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Dec 10 2017 07:34pm)
hopefully people like you arent deciding things like this.


Hopefully a successful brexit deal will make other countries leave and make the EU redundant, then something constructive can be built.

People didn't vote for Donald Tusk and Juncker to decide what laws are enacted in EU countries.
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Dec 10 2017 01:11pm
Quote (dro94 @ 10 Dec 2017 19:59)
Hopefully a successful brexit deal will make other countries leave and make the EU redundant, then something constructive can be built. People didn't vote for Donald Tusk and Juncker to decide what laws are enacted in EU countries.


European institutions arent "deciding" this or that, probably the effect of too much TV/Internet populist bait.

Ps; in bold: the joke of the week.


edit: Translate this if you want to get some ideas:
https://www.touteleurope.eu/actualite/idee-recue-bruxelles-decide-de-tout.html

i noted this one:

"
national governments often prefer to leave the Commission alone to make difficult decisions.
"Europe asks us", is a refrain quite regularly heard when it comes to approve of unpopular measures, even sometimes national.
"
Nations are deciding, not the EU.

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Dec 10 2017 01:15pm
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Dec 10 2017 01:35pm
Quote (dro94 @ 10 Dec 2017 19:59)
Hopefully a successful brexit deal will make other countries leave and make the EU redundant, then something constructive can be built.

People didn't vote for Donald Tusk and Juncker to decide what laws are enacted in EU countries.


unelected EU officials breaking their own laws would be a better description

Quote (Saucisson6000 @ 10 Dec 2017 19:34)
hopefully people like you arent deciding things like this.


of course a leftist utopia guy like is okay with this madness
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Dec 10 2017 07:17pm
Quote (ampoo @ 10 Dec 2017 20:35)

of course a leftist utopia guy like is okay with this madness


There's no madness, you have a populist speech looking for scapegoat, because heh this is how Populism works.
Europe is a tool, like I explained in my previous post.
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Dec 11 2017 01:40am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 10 2017 02:11pm)
thats exactly the issue: if the EU becomes more homogeneous, it means that the standard of living in france/germany/netherlands would move a few steps in the direction of where countries like poland or bulgaria are atm. thats a really tough sell to voters in those countries, dont you think?


I'm not saying that you are wrong. I do wonder, does this essentially mean that there is absolutely no way for every country in the continent/world to be prosperous at the same time?

All my life I have heard of people campaigning for less corruption and higher living standards in 2nd and 3rd world countries. Do you believe that this is all just white lies and wishful thinking?
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