The way I see it God does indeed know everything. He knows how everything will turn out. However from our point of view he acts in the here and now for our sake.

He knows what action you are going to take but that decision was still made by you.

Let's try it another way, you may know what someone is going to do based on their routine but that doesn't mean it's set in stone. You can still interfere and change the future.

Now if you're talking about predestination, it's in The Bible so deal with it.

Here we go, another one-liner without substance. Exaxtly what I just described. Probably followed by another one soon I guess?

On topic: Yes it does. The existance of Free Will is an ongoing debate for centuries actually.

First of all thanks for posting a normal response, thanks for being part of a debate or discussion however you wanna call it.

I see you said "its in the bible, so deal with it." You may understand, that I do not accept the bible as proof for the bible, right? If the bible would prove the bible, the christian god would be proven without the shadow of a doubt already and we could stop talking about many topics, not just this one.

Okay, now back to what you wrote. You say "You may know what someone is going to do based on their routine but that doesn't mean it's set in stone. You can still interfere and change the future".

No, what you describe is not knowing something, its knowing what to expect of something because of previous experiences. Its aquired knowledge. You are pretty sure, that something will go a certain way, BECAUSE of whatever. 2nd hand knowledge so to say, aquired from an outside source. That source could be another human, it could just be your experience or whatever.

God's knowledge is not aquired. God doesnt know what I do based on how I am or based on what I usually do, because that would mean that God had to gather information first to then gain knowledge. It would mean there was a point when god didnt know it and then learned of it. God has not not known something at any point. His knowledge is 1st hand knowledge. He knows because he is the source of all things. There is no source of knowledge outside of god. He knows things, because he is responsable for all those things. Its the only way I can think of. If he didnt do it, his knowledge would be aquired. Which isnt possible. Theres god's plan. Everything is part of god's plan. This includes all decisions ever made. He did it all. Its all one. Every moment, every action is him. Thats what omnipotent means. He isnt a human, he doesnt learn about something. God does not learn, does not gain, does not aquire.

This post was edited by Saurod on Jul 5 2025 05:09pm

Word salad

Next one liner response. You follow the script at least

Makes sense. We have to acquire knowledge first in order to know how someone will act. We are making an educated guess. Not God though. Because He knows what every single action everyone is going to take so the future is already decided.

Is there a chance where the future is decided unless there is an intervention to rewrite the course of history? Life does throw curveballs after all.

I guess I'm asking can you change the future or is it set in stone?

Its certainly set in stone if god exists. You gotta see it from his perspective. For him future is not a concept as time is not either. For him theres no reason to ever intervene because that would again mean that something not planned had happened, which cant be. There is also no linear progression for him. Everything happens simultanously. It always happens. Without future or past. "Happens" sounds detached tho, which is wrong again, lets say "He happens all at once". Not english, but the best way I can put it*lol

However, we can certainly change the future from our perspective. We do it all the time and every day. It doesnt change from Gods perspective, but from our perspective it happens on a daily basis. If I make the conscious decision to go left instead of right to prove a point, I actively changed the future. God however knew it was left and it was the only way and I could not have gone right in reality.
So we HAVE free will - but only from our perspective.
So one could make the argument that although we dont have real free will, because all decisions were already made by god, he granted us the impression that we have it, which might be good enough for us I would say. You can live a good and responsable life, a fulfilled life of doing the right thing without ever feeling the divine determinsim that paints the picture. It doesnt affect us really.
You could say: God is the puppet master, but we dont feel the strings.

Thats at least my personal conclusion from a religious perspective.

This post was edited by Saurod on Jul 5 2025 10:46pm

Yep, that makes sense. Since God already knows what will happen the future is already decided. We may think we're making a decision but that decision has already been made.

I can take comfort in the original point where I said "God acts in the here and now from our perspective". Maybe the future is already decided and it's set in stone. We may have the illusion of free will from our perspective.

I for one cannot imagine the concept of knowing what somebody terrible is going to do 10 Years from now and act as though they have already done the deed.

My question though, did God will for us to go left instead of right or did we make that decision ourselves? From our perspective we arrive at that junction and need to make a choice. There are a lot of factors that will weigh in on our final decision but in the end, from our perspective, the choice was made by us.