You have that system because of greed, no other reason. If your public could decide to pay 60% less for better healthcare they would, the pharma lobby just has full control on your politics.

The increased spend for R&D is a side effect, not the reason for your healthcare costs.

Also comparing per capita costs without normalizing for income/gdp is dishonest at best.

There is no "strawmanning" other than your attempt to compare mentally ill people who have consistently resorted to either violence or suicide to a tool of self-preservation.

The Constitution is not a "living document" or a "religion". The Constitution is the supreme law of the land in the United States. It declares that the RIGHT to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed. PERIOD. See that PERIOD there? Show me where in the Constitution ANYTHING is stated regarding people with body dismorphia. Show me ANYWHERE in the Constitution where it states that people with ANY mental illness should be treated as a protected class OR be able to steal tax and insurance dollars from law abiding, tax paying citizens to mutilate themselves.

The question regarding those with body dismorphia is a question about, "Why are we still validating their mental illness, when it has directly led to an increase in violence and murder from this tiny fraction of a minority of the population, rather than treating their illness with proper psychiatric care? Psychiatric care HAS been shown to reduce the likelihood of suicide by a few percent AND vastly reduces the threat of violence."

You are definitely not a conservative, we agree. You are not a centrist either. The fact that you would even compare mentally ill people's make-believe time to the god given right, and the right enshrined in the highest law of the land, to self-preservation is fucking stupid and you should feel stupid.

you're just drunk/hungover (again) and strawmanning. i made a simple point, we should ban or allow things based on their merit, not some tangential thing like if a person of that group commits an act of violence.

basically we should decide whether trans people under the age of 18 should get hormones or surgeries based on the merit it holds or doesnt hold, not say we can't do it because they might be a school shooter. that was literally all i was saying lol, and you roll into some odd constitution lesson that i dont disagree with, while pretending im pro-trans rights because you misunderstood my point and just blindly, or drunkenly, assumed i was equivocating trans people and the right to own a gun. because you're triggered i guess?

seek help dude, u do this too often.

It's sad that you accuse me of being drunk OR hungover. I just got home from work. You know, that four letter word that translates to "providing for your family"?

Your ability to dodge your nonsensical comparison between tools for self preservation and improperly mutilating mentally ill patients, rather than properly treating them, and how those improper treatments have led to multiple mass murderers not to mention a suicide rate higher than that witnessed by SLAVES is insane.

Again, you aren't a centrist. You're a borderline marxist, completely incapable of viewing the subject for what it is.

im glad i caught you at a sober moment, now do what a sober person should and listen.

i am not in favor of gender affirming care in most cases for children. certainly not for those who are pre-pubescent. i never said i was, nor implied i was.

in fact my point along that line is that school shooting are just the tip of the iceberg for the harm trans rights activists have caused and will continue to cause.

what's funny is my entire point is that if you just say "see its causing school shootings" people can and will discount it. a few dead kids every few years, while tragic, wont lead to legislation. but if you point out the hundreds of emerging stories about children coerced by councilors/parents, children mutilated and unable to have kids, and a bevy of other issues that may actually lead to state or eventually national legislation.

ironically this might make me more anti trans rights than you in context. i dont want a slice of the pie, i want the whole thing. you get triggered by a gun comparison u didnt understand then go to strawmans and insults.

not a surprise, its the same pattern every time. strawman, insult, realize you were wrong but insult some more, then fuck off for a while. see u in a few months after your next enraged post i guess?

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 20 2024 08:43am

There, I've listened. Now pretend you're an adult and understand that NOTHING you are saying is relevant.

In US Law, doctor assisted suicide is illegal in every scenario EXCEPT where the patient is terminal (death with dignity in Oregon, for instance). Another type of body dysmorphia, where the patient believes a limb does not belong to them, is barred by law from validation. Under no circumstance may the doctor remove the offending limb without medical need (sepsis, gangrene, etc.).

You do NOT validate mental illness. EVER. If you do, it gets WORSE. It's not a question of minor or adult. NOBODY with body dysmorphia should be provided anything other than psychiatric care. They are suffering from a mental illness that actively prevents them from qualifying under currently existing informed consent laws.

Further, for every single person with a memory longer than five seconds, there was a massive amount of screaming over people being prescribed Z-Packs, Ivermectin, and monochlonal antibodies for Covid. Remember that? "These are off label uses for those medications!" Guess what friend, EVERY medication and surgical technique used for "Transition Therapy/Surgery" is off label, and not FDA approved.

You keep going back to guns, but these are not comparable topics in any way, shape, or form. The right of the people to self-preservation, a right that supercedes all government, all man-made laws, is NOT comparable in any way to the legalized mutilation of the mentally ill, and how that mutilation has led to an extreme spike in violence and murder from those mentally ill.

Do you begin to understand, or is your brain seized up from trying to twist together a retarded comparison between incomparable topics?

when it comes to the hormones topic i largely agree, entirely in fact when it comes to minors. when it comes to adults, they can do whatever they want to themselves, thats none of my concern. the rabbit hole of legitimizing mental illness is deep, and im very critical of the psychiatric field overall. i hate psychiatric pills and would never take any nor let my family take them unless there was some insanely clear drastic condition that required them which is unlikely.

as to the off label uses of meds, i said the same thing during covid. let people take whatever they want and i laughed at the horse dewormer narrative.

lastly you can just keep saying they're "incomparable", but i compared them. in both the cases of trans rights and gun rights people are attempting to use school shootings as a motivation to attack both categories of rights. that is a literal comparison and its not up for debate, its happening right now. the secondary followup of both being different doesnt change the comparison, its just tertiary context. trans rights shouldnt be attacked due to school shootings for 2 reasons, firstly its ineffective and wont drive change and secondly its just the tip of the iceberg in terms of harm caused. its an emotional argument to try and use school shootings as a typifying event to ban them and it wont work imo. gun rights shouldnt come under attack due to school shootings for a different reason of sorts but some of the same reasons too. it also is an emotional response, not grounded in logic, but as you stated there is constitutional guarantees to the population that are inalienable.

i see this a lot, people dont actually like comparisons, they only like equivocations. i didnt make an equivocation, i made a comparison. you can compare giraffes to white tail deer, they live across the globe from each other and are only distantly related. doesnt change the fact that you can compare the two and find similarities. you do realize comparisons can be made between two entirely different things, right? i can compare a grain of sand and liquid water. i dont think people know what comparison means sometimes lol.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 20 2024 09:38am

The largest issue is that I don't particularly see where there's a specific comparison. When it comes to attacking gun rights, we know what that means. Starts with banning missiles, rockets, etc. Moves to machineguns. Scary black guns must be next! Let's target the most popular rifle build in the nation, that is used in fewer than 10% of all "mass shootings" while ignoring handguns, which are using in over 90%. The attacks on self-preservation are constant, and REAL.

Tell me what "right" is under attack when it comes to "trans". Sincerely. Nobody has claimed, even due to their mental illness, that they should be disarmed. Nobody has claimed they should not be able to receive proper psychiatric care. Nobody has attacked any "rights" whatsoever. Perhaps it's wanting to ban "drag time story hour" and other such? Go watch the videos of these "story hours" and some of the parades and such. You have adults (barely) dressed in ways that are clearly in violation of public exposure laws, and directly targeting children. Do adults have the "right" in the United States to expose themselves to other people's children?

If you wish to compare apples to oranges, go ahead. It's an exercise in stupidity, but I'll play along. However, if you're going to do it, provide some specific example of what "rights" are under attack. Then we can discuss if these are "rights" at all.

Edit: We do agree to some extent that adults should be able to take what they want. However, when it comes to doctors VALIDATING mental illness, rather than treating it? Nah fren. When you've legalized all drugs, then we can discuss the mutilation of the mentally ill. Until basic recreational shit that harms nobody but the user is on the table, drugs that specifically mutilate aren't a consideration. For children OR adults.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Dec 20 2024 09:54am

i see your issue now, it is with the word "rights". trans rights advocates want to call giving minors hormones and puberty blockers a right. i dont, but that doesnt matter, they do. when i say attacking trans rights im saying attacking what trans people and their fervent supporters call rights.

a white incel shoots up a school and people on the left say "see no one should have guns".

a trans kid shoots up a school and people on the right say "see hormones and blockers shouldn't go to kids".

both are illogical, because neither "ban" would guarantee the kid wouldn't shoot up a school. maybe incel buys an illegal trunk gun, maybe trans kid shoots up the school anyways because bullying and not blockers were the cause. 1 trans kid per year and 1 incel kid per year or so shoots up a school, but for both sides these are terrible arguments to use logically, they're just emotionally charged.

I think part of the issue here is that you're listening to an argument that is being made on behalf of those who are against "transition treatment", rather than BY those who are against it, and making far different arguments. Very few indeed are the people who truly oppose transition treatment/surgery and are trying to use school shootings as a point in favor of that stance. The majority of us view the suicide rate being completely unchanged pre-treatment and post-treatment, and violence rates as a whole being much higher among those who receive so-called "treatment" aka validation of their mental illness, rather than proper, psychiatric treatment.

Those who wish to outlaw guns may be stupid, but they have a legitimate point: If there were no guns, you couldn't shoot up a school. The problem is, there are guns everywhere. Australia still has millions and millions of guns. So does the UK. There are still shootings everywhere. You can't unmake the knowledge of how to make guns. I can make guns. I can make ammunition. Assuming I have the base materials. It's not hard. They have no grasp of the reality that what's being discussed isn't lethality of a weapon, or amount of people killed by the weapon. If they did grasp that reality, they'd be targeting handguns, the #1 tool used for murder in in the US, and possibly #1 on the planet. Yet handguns are fine when rifles that are seldom used in crime are targeted? Weird.

Likewise, only one side of both arguments has a rational answer. Rational answer for school shootings: Train and arm teachers, staff, and/or security. There's a reason over 90% of all mass shootings in the US occurs in "gun free zones". Make the consequence of attempting to murder children immediate, real, and very, very final, and fewer people target children. It works. With the mentally ill, stop validating their mental illness, stop caving to demands for special treatment, and instead properly treat their illness. Isn't it funny that "trans murderers" weren't a topic of consideration 20 years ago? What changed in the last 20 years?