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Dec 7 2024 03:40pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Dec 7 2024 08:29pm)
Its all quite irrelevant. Its a story about some random person being murdered over a perceived societal grievance by a radical, who probably didn't know who he was shooting at beyond a healthcare CEO, and not sure which.

People have longstanding grievances with healthcare in America. It is fundamentally a social service set up specifically to do good and save lives, which it does. It is the instrument by which those with means give to those in need. I pay high premiums and receive no benefits, others pay nothing and receive much. There are plenty of ways it has gone astray and I for one always supported full nationalization of healthcare and research and drug production, bit none of that sums up to a crusade to kill people on a vague sense of their identity.

13% of the population are black people who commit 50% of the murders. The rates of black on white homicide, rape, aggravated assault and robbery are all orders of magnitude higher than the inverse. They pay less in taxes and consume more in social services. Does this justify a racist shooter who goes to a ghetto and starts gunning down random black men? Longstanding deep societal issues, blaming the people who are responsible. So go out and kill some random person with no idea who they are or what they've done.

Again, this is the single most pernicious strain of disease blightinf modern history. If a man with a gun drags away the guy next to you and shoots him in the head and tells you he was an enemy of the revolution, will you cheer his death? One man got murdered by one radical, but he's a hero to millions of people who think their indiscriminate violence and hatred are justified.

Its something beyond the mere concern of civil liberties and need for impartial justice. Its not an issue of pacifism or aversion to change. Its that simple streak of basic human decency that should override the impulse to join and support mob violence. That if you see such a degenerate display of hatred and malice, it should repulse you


hang on, and understand i respect you, and am not looking for trouble:

1. it is a longstanding grievance for a lot of people, how the medical industry has treated customers, sick people, very poorly in the USA.
2. it is well known, in the USA, and around the world, that USA healthcare is a joke (the world looks at US healthcare and laughs in disbelief). this is not against the very good Dr's and Nurses, but rather the OBSCENE costs in tandem with this NON PAYMENT of claims.
3. full nationalization of healthcare, amen. alas, no sign of this. not sure re: vague sense of identity, if referring to the shooting, its more like an assassination, per-meditated, not random.
4. this shooting does not look random,the guy knew clearly who he was shooting or am i missing something? / i am skipping over the black stuff.
5. there is no hero here. but why this is a story that is hitting the headlines around the world is baffling. there are far bigger stories then some disgruntled patient or family member shooting some CEO. If it is a symptom of US poor people striking at the the entitled. but again, there is no reason for this to be international news.
6. tbh it repulses me that the industry of health in the US tries to take the last penny from their customers, and then has the audacity to then not pay out on claims. that is totally lacking in human decency.

TLDR: For years we were hearing about USA being #1. when the cost of medication is so much higher then peer countries, when its medical industry is so much worse then its peer competitors and when there is endemic medical issues in the country, there is clearly something wrong. if thats not accepted or recognized then it will only continue / get worse.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 7 2024 03:40pm
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Dec 7 2024 04:12pm
Quote (ferdia @ Dec 8 2024 05:40am)
hang on, and understand i respect you, and am not looking for trouble:

1. it is a longstanding grievance for a lot of people, how the medical industry has treated customers, sick people, very poorly in the USA.
2. it is well known, in the USA, and around the world, that USA healthcare is a joke (the world looks at US healthcare and laughs in disbelief). this is not against the very good Dr's and Nurses, but rather the OBSCENE costs in tandem with this NON PAYMENT of claims.
3. full nationalization of healthcare, amen. alas, no sign of this. not sure re: vague sense of identity, if referring to the shooting, its more like an assassination, per-meditated, not random.
4. this shooting does not look random,the guy knew clearly who he was shooting or am i missing something? / i am skipping over the black stuff.
5. there is no hero here. but why this is a story that is hitting the headlines around the world is baffling. there are far bigger stories then some disgruntled patient or family member shooting some CEO. If it is a symptom of US poor people striking at the the entitled. but again, there is no reason for this to be international news.
6. tbh it repulses me that the industry of health in the US tries to take the last penny from their customers, and then has the audacity to then not pay out on claims. that is totally lacking in human decency.

TLDR: For years we were hearing about USA being #1. when the cost of medication is so much higher then peer countries, when its medical industry is so much worse then its peer competitors and when there is endemic medical issues in the country, there is clearly something wrong. if thats not accepted or recognized then it will only continue / get worse.


But the endemic problems are neither here nor there. Its like the examples of racist gunman killing black people because of the endemic race problems in America. It doesn't justify it. It shouldn't even come into the conversation. How much social media after the Charleston shooting or Buffalo shooting was about "maybe this guy had a point", "these n***** had it coming" and "this guy is a hero and millions support him".

Theres no evidence the gunman here knew specifically who he was shooting at beyond a healthcare executive who had attended this conference. Thats what we can deduce from the evidence at hand- he staked out the event and shot the first well dressed guy leaving it. It was a crime of hatred and dehumanization, politically motivated by someone who's worldview is warped enough they believe they have the right to kill someone he's never met before. And that is precisely the same vein of violent radicalization that has reoccurred throughout periods of history for thousands of years. We're seeing the groundwork laid for more times of trouble. When americans who represent a significant political faction can support random acts of violence against CEOs, police, jews, christians, republicans, etc

It should be a simple matter of humanity. Either you've got it or you don't. Dude got gunned down and his family and community are mourning and united offices are being shut down in anticipation of copycat and followup attacks by more radicals. Some folks really need to internalize the "are we the baddies?" skit
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Dec 7 2024 04:22pm
Quote (ferdia @ Dec 7 2024 11:21am)
yes but im not racist so i dont look at black or white people, i just look at people.

Homicides: Black Americans, who make up roughly 13% of the U.S. population, account for a significant portion of gun-related homicides, but it is far from nearly all. For example, Black individuals account for about 50% of all firearm-related homicides, but White Americans, who make up about 60% of the population, account for a large portion of gun-related deaths as well, particularly in areas outside urban centers.

Mass Shootings: The perpetrators of mass shootings—defined as events where four or more people are injured—are overwhelmingly White. In fact, according to data from the Gun Violence Archive and other sources, many mass shootings are carried out by White individuals, particularly in suburban or rural settings, which leads to a different pattern of gun violence than in urban areas.

White Americans, especially in rural areas, are also significantly affected by gun violence, including suicides, which account for the majority of firearm deaths in the U.S.

----

did you just bait me to post that lol. what a baddy!


It's not racism to observe a phenomenon. Racism is prejudice against a given race - there is zero prejudice here, there is simple postjudice of looking at the reality.

The fact is that the supermajority of gun violence is committed by blacks, against blacks. If you ignore this simple reality in service of an irrational and illogical ideology, you've lost the plot. There is no ideology here, just observed data. Any attempts to solve a problem are futile if one refuses to acknowledge the reality. The reality is that too many black people commit too much violence. People outside of North America have been brainwashed into thinking guns have anything to do with it - they don't. Like I said, white gun violence is LESS than comparable Western nations where guns are banned. In Canada and the US we all (most) have high powered, battle-tested military grade firearms. And we don't shoot each other with them.

The problem in the US is an under-incarceration problem of violent offenders. El Salvador already demonstrated the solution to this problem which, frankly, is trivial. Take the violent offenders and segregate them from society. Bing bang boom.

This post was edited by El1te on Dec 7 2024 04:23pm
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Dec 7 2024 04:24pm
Quote (ferdia @ Dec 7 2024 04:40pm)
hang on, and understand i respect you, and am not looking for trouble:

1. it is a longstanding grievance for a lot of people, how the medical industry has treated customers, sick people, very poorly in the USA.
2. it is well known, in the USA, and around the world, that USA healthcare is a joke (the world looks at US healthcare and laughs in disbelief). this is not against the very good Dr's and Nurses, but rather the OBSCENE costs in tandem with this NON PAYMENT of claims.
3. full nationalization of healthcare, amen. alas, no sign of this. not sure re: vague sense of identity, if referring to the shooting, its more like an assassination, per-meditated, not random.
4. this shooting does not look random,the guy knew clearly who he was shooting or am i missing something? / i am skipping over the black stuff.
5. there is no hero here. but why this is a story that is hitting the headlines around the world is baffling. there are far bigger stories then some disgruntled patient or family member shooting some CEO. If it is a symptom of US poor people striking at the the entitled. but again, there is no reason for this to be international news.
6. tbh it repulses me that the industry of health in the US tries to take the last penny from their customers, and then has the audacity to then not pay out on claims. that is totally lacking in human decency.

TLDR: For years we were hearing about USA being #1. when the cost of medication is so much higher then peer countries, when its medical industry is so much worse then its peer competitors and when there is endemic medical issues in the country, there is clearly something wrong. if thats not accepted or recognized then it will only continue / get worse.


I agree that America should nationalize healthcare. Should also stop paying for all the medical research in the world tho, let Europe contribute their fair share to research and development and there will be more than enough left over in savings for American healthcare. Of course, Europe is not willing to pay their fair share for research and development so the result would be a massive slowdown on new treatment development for everyone in the world. Maybe take it out of the billions of American tax dollars that are spent every year on defending Europe. An entire continent of ingrates.
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Dec 7 2024 04:25pm
Quote (gnarjay @ Dec 6 2024 10:43pm)
my brother, hillary is one of probably thousands of politicians that believe it. why do you think its solely HER idea? she wasnt even the first person to say it


My guy... Hillary is *literally*, *categorically*, the person who INVENTED the rumours in the first place. She's the individual who created it. This is old old old news, the bought and paid for by the Clinton 2016 campaign bogus Steele dossier. It was a fabricated smear against Trump that failed.

Again I'll state very clearly she's literally the person who invented it

This post was edited by El1te on Dec 7 2024 04:29pm
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Dec 7 2024 04:31pm
Quote (Shadowoffury @ Dec 7 2024 02:24pm)
I agree that America should nationalize healthcare. Should also stop paying for all the medical research in the world tho, let Europe contribute their fair share to research and development and there will be more than enough left over in savings for American healthcare. Of course, Europe is not willing to pay their fair share for research and development so the result would be a massive slowdown on new treatment development for everyone in the world. Maybe take it out of the billions of American tax dollars that are spent every year on defending Europe. An entire continent of ingrates.


Exactly.

People love to ignore the fact that postmodern medical advances are bought and paid for by private big medicine. All these other places like Europe leech off American R&D. The same way they leech their own national security. It's purely parasitic

Europe is like a failing company that is constantly bailed out by the government. Europe must be allowed to fail on its own - its the only way to drive improvement & responsibility

This post was edited by El1te on Dec 7 2024 04:38pm
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Dec 7 2024 04:48pm
Quote (El1te @ Dec 7 2024 10:52am)
It's important to understand that nearly *all* of US gun violence is committed by black people. The US gun violence statistics, if you just look at white people, are on par with or even LOWER than similar Western nations.


It is the b in ltbtq after all.
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Dec 7 2024 04:50pm
Quote (El1te @ Dec 7 2024 05:31pm)
Exactly.

People love to ignore the fact that postmodern medical advances are bought and paid for by private big medicine. All these other places like Europe leech off American R&D. The same way they leech their own national security. It's purely parasitic

Europe is like a failing company that is constantly bailed out by the government. Europe must be allowed to fail on its own - its the only way to drive improvement & responsibility


I was joking. We've seen how Europe handles being left alone without a babysitter. Defending them has rendered them incapable of waging war on themselves and the rest of the world, as they did for thousands of years, so it's a pretty great investment. I'd just like to hear a lot less of their entirely undeserved sense of superiority.
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Dec 7 2024 04:52pm
Quote (Sh00p @ Dec 7 2024 02:48pm)
It is the b in ltbtq after all.


They did put it on their hideous flag 😅
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Dec 7 2024 04:54pm
Quote (Shadowoffury @ Dec 7 2024 02:50pm)
I was joking. We've seen how Europe handles being left alone without a babysitter. Defending them has rendered them incapable of waging war on themselves and the rest of the world, as they did for thousands of years, so it's a pretty great investment. I'd just like to hear a lot less of their entirely undeserved sense of superiority.


North Americans aren't getting a whole lot of returns on the investment. They export anti-American hatred at every opportunity, while being a dependent, much like a screaming infant.
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