Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 13 2024 01:15pm)

Of course some degree of collateral damage has to be accepted in war. But it's also obvious that the ratio of collateral damage to valid targets can't get infinitely high. Say we had gotten reliable intel in late 2001 that Osama is in Kabul - would it have been justified to drop a nuke on the entire city, killing hundreds of thousands to take out one man? Obviously not. Similar story in your example of a North Korean invasion. If the North invaded the South, it would be justified to crush their military and destroy their barracks, airfields and arms factories. But would it be justified to bomb villages to take out every last soldier of the KPA?

At the end of the day, it's a dicey trade-off between sparing civilian lives and achieving military goals. The key problem in the current situation in Gaza is that Israel has no buffer, the enemy is right at their doorstep and can - as Oct 7 showed - inflict significant damage even with the simplest of means. Nazi Germany was done and no longer posed an existential threat although several million staunch nazis got away. South Korea would be safe even if thousands of scattered KPA soldiers survive. Israel, by contrast, will not be safe if any sizable number of Hamas fighters survive.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ May 13 2024 07:11pm)

You can't possibly say your with justice but also claim Hamas is not responsible for its actions.
Do you agree Hamas caused the war on October 7th leading to the fighting that has caused thousands of deaths?

Before October 7th there was still violence, but there was no hot war.

Quote (bogie160 @ 13 May 2024 19:20)

I would expect the war to end with the unconditional surrender of the North Korean military and the complete occupation of that country. My expectations are pretty similar in this scenario.

Quote (bogie160 @ May 13 2024 11:20am)

I would expect the war to end with the unconditional surrender of the North Korean military and the complete occupation of that country. My expectations are pretty similar in this scenario.

Quote (APQ @ May 13 2024 07:26pm)

Facts are straight:

- Muslims and Jews peaceful co-existed in Palestine
- Zionist did ethnic cleansing
- Israel kill Muslim many many many thousands more
- Most victims women and children

Which fact you despute?

Stop play victim. You with ethnic cleansing, occupation and genocide. You talk other country give exact case not just blah. This thread is Zionist and Palestine. Make new one for your lament. I come talk. I never for violence.

Quote (APQ @ 14 May 2024 02:19)

Sad

https://i.imgur.com/HOf5DWa.png

Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 13 2024 01:55pm)

So you expect Israel to occupy Gaza for decades? That's just not realistic. Been there, done that. Didn't work. There's a reason Israel pulled out of Gaza back in 2005.

Which brings us back to my original point: it matters to which degree a place's civilian population aligns with and supports the bad guys. In the case of Gaza and Hamas, the support level is unusually high, which lowers the prospects of any long-term occupation or "de-Hamas-ification" efforts.

Quote (ofthevoid @ 13 May 2024 20:38)

That's why to me any lasting solution to this issue is so elusive. The population views them as freedom fighters and even if Israel wipes out all of them now, in 5 years a new batch will sprout, remembering their older brothers, fathers, other family members that died in the war of 'resistance' against a force that has seemingly lorded over them for generations. It would be real nice for the Muslim world at least around there to try to figure out some solution in which the Palestinians are separated and moved from under Israeli ribs so hopefully they can stop fighting, but they don't care.

Personally I blame the Sunni Arabs here more than anyone. No real attempt to find a solution, just kind of crying how it's not fair how Palestinians are treated yet somehow expecting Israel to live with such a hostile force on it's doorstep (when none of these Sunnis would do the same within their own countries).

Quote (ofthevoid @ 14 May 2024 02:38)

That's why to me any lasting solution to this issue is so elusive. The population views them as freedom fighters and even if Israel wipes out all of them now, in 5 years a new batch will sprout, remembering their older brothers, fathers, other family members that died in the war of 'resistance' against a force that has seemingly lorded over them for generations. It would be real nice for the Muslim world at least around there to try to figure out some solution in which the Palestinians are separated and moved from under Israeli ribs so hopefully they can stop fighting, but they don't care.

Personally I blame the Sunni Arabs here more than anyone. No real attempt to find a solution, just kind of crying how it's not fair how Palestinians are treated yet somehow expecting Israel to live with such a hostile force on it's doorstep (when none of these Sunnis would do the same within their own countries).