I largely agree with your sentiment here, but the bolded part is still problematic since roughly half the population of Gaza was born after 2007, when Hamas came to power and the last election took place.

Polls and also clips of the celebrations after the Oct 7 attacks indicate that a clear majority of Gaza's population supports Hamas and its savagery, so the moral culpability is ultimately the same, but arguing with an election from almost 20 years ago doesn't really cut it.




It demonstrates their military might, yes. It does not necessarily demonstrate their unwavering determination, and it has exposed Israel's weakness in terms of strategic planning and on the propaganda front. Israel's sway over the global public opinion has clearly diminished.

Israel is definitely better off with the approach they've taken compared to an alternate reality in which they showed "mercy" and didn't retaliate. But yes, they've maneuvered themselves into a corner; at this point, packing it up and going home might be better for Israel than going into Rafah and causing a bloodbath. The best option would of course be a gradual evacuation of Rafah in which all outgoing people are vetted, so that legit civilians can be separated from Hamas fighters.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 12 2024 02:58pm

Israel follows the international laws of war more closely than any other modern military.

Where is Israel violating the international laws of war in regards to proportionality and distinction? If Israel responded with the same proportionality and distinction as their enemy, Hamas, the claims about genocide might have merit.

I put innocents in quotations because pretending the Palestinian non-Hamas population is completely innocent makes no sense at all. They(the adults over there) are made up of mostly a radicalized population that supports Hamas and their racist, genocidal terrorist aims against their Jewish neighbors. I think pretending otherwise results in a seriously distorted view of the situation.

This post was edited by IceMage on May 12 2024 04:59pm

Fair enough.

I do think populations have a certain moral responsibility to repel genocidal tyrants from their governments. I recognize it's not always feasible, but whether it's Germany in the 1930s or Palestine today, the population holds some level of moral responsibility for the actions of the people who represent them, even if overthrowing them would be hard or near impossible. The reality with Palestine today is that the population mostly supports their Nazis.

This post was edited by IceMage on May 12 2024 04:55pm

Speaking of which: during WWII, the world was actually faced with a somewhat similar situation. Estimates are that around one third of the entire workforce of Nazi Germany in 1944 consisted of forced laborers. Their factories were chock-full with innocent, enslaved civilians. Imagine peaceniks back then going "oh no, you can't bomb the nazi factories because too many innocent people will die".

https://thedispatch.com/podcast/advisoryopinions/law-of-war/

Podcast discussing the laws of war as it relates to the Israeli conflict(was recorded closely after October 7th).

thanks for the laugh - and as for me mentioning the ihl principles of proportionality, it was in response to your post to proximity calling the strategy to starve 1.5 million innocents civilians to death to kill 30k hamas absurd, which your delusion makes you think it's acceptable mainly because you share the same belief as the other fanatic in this thread - that civilians aren't innocent

I don't know what post you are talking about, could you reference it here?

ManyNames does seem to be a fanatic, I'm certainly not one. I'm just a guy who doesn't care about aligning with silly conventional knowledge, like the idea that Palestinians are hostages to Hamas, and have nothing to do with October 7th. They aren't hostage, they are mostly willing participants in the actions of the Nazis who hold power there.

I'd appreciate a serious response to my post though. How has Israel violated the international law as it relates to proportionality and distinction? Typically on PaRD, if I have to ask twice for an explanation, it means the poster is full of shit. Are you?

post #10901



post #10924


my response was serious, all you got out of proximity to your earlier comment was an lol

This post was edited by SixFour on May 12 2024 05:22pm

On this point. Before October 7th you wouldn't see me in a thread discussing the Israel/Palestine conflict, cause I don't know anything about it. Hamas's terrorist attack forced me to have an opinion on the conflict, because it obviously merited a response. I'm almost completely aligned with Senator John Fetterman. I'm not uncritically supporting everything Israel does like Fetterman, but I'm kind of close to that, in the sense that I give Israel a pretty fucking wide latitude to engage the 21st century Nazis on their border. Hamas is evil, they need to be destroyed, and I support Israel's effort to do that. Innocent Palestinians dying in this war is horrible, and the moral blame is almost entirely on Hamas. They started this war, and Israel will finish it.

I think my response is more of a rejection of the argument... Israel isn't intentionally starving people, they are prosecuting a war against Hamas and there are consequences for the local population.

But I don't even know that massive amounts of civilians are starving. There's a bunch of aid going there(which Hamas restricts and intercepts, but let's not focus on the Nazis!). Biden is building a port to help facilitate aid to Palestinians.

Anyway, your post was bullshit, and you twisted my words. If you can't distinguish between ManyNames and myself, you are yourself a fanatic.

Btw, still waiting on your explanation on the proportionality/distinction point. You claimed I don't understand these things... so I'm waiting on an explanation my brother.

This post was edited by IceMage on May 12 2024 05:41pm