Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 11 2024 02:09pm)

Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 11 2024 08:43pm)

Do you think the Middle East wasn't facing another violent few decades anyway, no matter what Israel would have done in response to the Oct 7 attack?

The way these barbaric attacks were celebrated widely in Gaza, the West Bank, all across the MENA region and in countless Muslim communities in first world countries really shows that a critical mass of Muslims around the world has no intentions of giving up on the goal of cleansing the Holy Land of all Jews, "from the River to the Sea". The idea that peace would be possible based on rapprochement and a growing mutual understanding has been proven an idealistic pipe dream. The cold hard truth is that the best Israel can hope for is a tenuous peace based on begrudging respect from their Arab neighbors for Israel's overwhelming strength. "Peace through weakness" has never worked anywhere at any time in human history, and this conflict is no exception.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 11 2024 07:43pm)

Do you think the Middle East wasn't facing another violent few decades anyway, no matter what Israel would have done in response to the Oct 7 attack?

The way these barbaric attacks were celebrated widely in Gaza, the West Bank, all across the MENA region and in countless Muslim communities in first world countries really shows that a critical mass of Muslims around the world has no intentions of giving up on the goal of cleansing the Holy Land of all Jews, "from the River to the Sea". The idea that peace would be possible based on rapprochement and a growing mutual understanding has been proven an idealistic pipe dream. The cold hard truth is that the best Israel can hope for is a tenuous peace based on begrudging respect from their Arab neighbors for Israel's overwhelming strength. "Peace through weakness" has never worked anywhere at any time in human history, and this conflict is no exception.

Quote (Bazi @ May 11 2024 10:10pm)

Nobody’s hands are clean so if you do want some sort of lasting peace this notion has to be accepted

Hamas has dirty hands

Netanyahu has dirty hands

US has dirty hands

Every neighboring Arab nation has dirty hands

So since everyone has a part to play in this clusterfuck, the only thing that will result in long term deradicalization and a semblance of peace is a global effort which includes multiple good faith actors

Youre starting with zero good faith actors so it looks pretty hopeless

Quote (EndlessSky @ May 11 2024 09:24pm)

Hamas started this and the horror won't end until they are all exiled or dead.

Hamas will hold civilians as tortured captives until they either lose or get what they want.

Quote (SixFour @ 12 May 2024 03:59)

do you think israel committing war crimes and acts of genocide themselves in response to the heinous attacks on oct 7 demonstrates their strength and will command respect?

Quote (SixFour @ May 11 2024 02:05pm)

to you and i it may seem absurd, but to others in this thread it sounds reasonable, especially when your general rule of thumb is that there are no innocents in gaza.
these are brainwashed fanatics whose only source of "facts" / information is israeli propaganda from tiktok and facebook - when you present them with international laws / rules, conventions and principles their defense is "civilian casualties are part of war, if you dont want your people dying dont start a war" - i'm told these are the basics, i need to educate myself

Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 11 2024 11:20pm)

We obviously disagree on whether a genocide is taking place, and on where the line between "war crimes" and "necessary collateral damage" lies.

But yes: destroying Hamas root and branch will command more respect than if Israel allowed emotional blackmail to force themselves into letting terrorists get away who explicitly vowed to kill them at any given opportunity.
The key achilles heel of Israel is that they depend on the arms supplies and the political backing of the US, and the West more broadly. It is this backing by the West which Hamas and their fifth column have successfully whittled away.

This all being said, unnecessary casualties during Israel's Gaza campaign are of course a bad thing and worsen their position.

Quote (SixFour @ May 12 2024 06:01pm)

let me rephrase, i'm not asking if the stated goal of destroying hamas will command more respect but more so the current strategy - whether we can agree if war crimes or genocidal acts are being committed is one thing, but do you think israel's current strategy over the past few months demonstrates their strength and will command respect?

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ May 11 2024 11:53am)

Starving 1.5 million to people to death in order to capture or kill 30,000 is not a good strategy

And then claim it wasn't your fault because that 30,000 didn't surrender.

Its lunacy.