Starving 1.5 million to people to death in order to capture or kill 30,000 is not a good strategy

And then claim it wasn't your fault because that 30,000 didn't surrender.

Its lunacy.

to you and i it may seem absurd, but to others in this thread it sounds reasonable, especially when your general rule of thumb is that there are no innocents in gaza.
these are brainwashed fanatics whose only source of "facts" / information is israeli propaganda from tiktok and facebook - when you present them with international laws / rules, conventions and principles their defense is "civilian casualties are part of war, if you dont want your people dying dont start a war" - i'm told these are the basics, i need to educate myself

" that there are no innocents in gaza. "

This is the crux

And obviously perception is everything, and my perception to an Israel in Tel aviv won't be the same.
But rationality has to prevail. Otherwise there can be no complaints when allies with more objective thinking do not support the strategy.

Its not an abandonment of Israel, its a refusal to abandon humanity and rationality. Which is what Netanyahu has allowed and Gallant has facilitated.

agreed, in regards to perception i think the problem is that there are folks in that region who are taught to hate a certain people for generations from birth - there are palestinians/arabs who blindly hate all jews/israelis, as there are jews/israelis who hate all palestinians/arabs and there is nothing you can say or do that would persuade them otherwise
the conflict has been ongoing for decades and nothing happens in a vacuum, but it doesn't justify the blind hatred which fueled the oct 7 attacks killing innocent israeli civilians (i say innocent civilians because that's what they were but there are some of the mindset that there are no innocent israelis and thus the attack was justified - similar logic to the fanatic in this thread)
and now the oct 7 attacks are being used as an excuse to fuel the blind hatred of all palestinians by some israelis - the priority, in my opinion, has shifted and is no longer about rescuing the hostages or "defeating" hamas, it's to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible to the palestinian people

Mostly agree.
And to be clear I support destroying Hamas. I don't understand why the IDF have delayed for so long going into Rafah after forcing millions to flee there.
I get they don't want to risk their own soldiers by simply walking into areas.

I share the stated aims of the war. But the strategy in my opinion has been a failure.
I blame Netanyahu and the far right sections of his government.

Imho, they didn't really know the endgame of this campaign when it started. The months-long standoff over going into Rafah is imho a sign of Israeli leadership struggling with the realization that Hamas - although their backs are against the wall on the ground - has achieved a major moral victory. Their cynical strategy of hiding behind a huge wall of civilians has paid off. Israel is in a no-win situation.

They can either go in and take out the remaining Hamas fighters in Rafah, but it will be a bloodbath and public opinion around the world would turn even more sharply against them. Or they don't eradicate the Hamas fighters in Rafah, but then they'll have failed the public goal of this war and people in both Israel and around the world will rightfully ask if the sacrificies and the death toll of this campaign were even worth it if Hamas isn't fully destroyed in the end.

The honest reply to these concerns is "well, the troop strength and the infrastructure of Hamas were decimated; even if we didn't get every last fighter, it will still take them years, probably well over a decade, to restore their pre-war capacities"... but that will not satisfy anyone. Particularly since Netanyahu's opponents accuse him of secretly wanting to keep Hamas in power in Gaza anyway.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 11 2024 04:32pm

Crazy how people just realizing this

As if you’re not setting up the region for another violent few decades through the sheer number of atrocities being committed

This post was edited by Bazi on May 11 2024 05:16pm

Do you think the Middle East wasn't facing another violent few decades anyway, no matter what Israel would have done in response to the Oct 7 attack?

The way these barbaric attacks were celebrated widely in Gaza, the West Bank, all across the MENA region and in countless Muslim communities in first world countries really shows that a critical mass of Muslims around the world has no intentions of giving up on the goal of cleansing the Holy Land of all Jews, "from the River to the Sea". The idea that peace would be possible based on rapprochement and a growing mutual understanding has been proven an idealistic pipe dream. The cold hard truth is that the best Israel can hope for is a tenuous peace based on begrudging respect from their Arab neighbors for Israel's overwhelming strength. "Peace through weakness" has never worked anywhere at any time in human history, and this conflict is no exception.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 11 2024 06:45pm