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Apr 11 2024 04:03am
your missing the point. it does not matter what country is assigned to them, its the fact that you are displacing people that are living there now.

your argument is totally shit. you are saying, Palestine never existed, and therefore you can do w/e the hell you want by right of conquest. might is right.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 11 2024 04:06am
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Apr 11 2024 04:11am
Quote (ferdia @ 11 Apr 2024 13:03)
your missing the point. it does not matter what country is assigned to them, its the fact that you are displacing people that are living there now.

your argument is totally shit. you are saying, Palestine never existed, and therefore you can do w/e the hell you want by right of conquest. might is right.


Read what I wrote
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Apr 11 2024 04:15am
Hebrew U professor: Israel today similar to Nazi Germany

https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Hebrew-U-professor-Todays-Israel-similar-to-Nazi-Germany-497731

the comparison is a matter of fact rather than opinion.

Cassif also criticized recent legislation passed legalizing 4,000 homes in the West Bank, stating that this this law, "allows Jews to take over Palestinian-owned land for themselves, just like Aryans in 1930 Germany were allowed to kick Jews out of their homes.

7 years old artilce LOL MY GOD (the real one ofc)

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Apr 11 2024 04:22am


Quote (Many_Names @ Apr 11 2024 11:11am)
Read what I wrote


what you wrote is only deflecting. you are narrating historical points and are using those to justify what Israel has been doing for decades.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 11 2024 04:26am
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Apr 11 2024 04:22am
Quote (ferdia @ 11 Apr 2024 13:03)
your missing the point. it does not matter what country is assigned to them, its the fact that you are displacing people that are living there now.

your argument is totally shit. you are saying, Palestine never existed, and therefore you can do w/e the hell you want by right of conquest. might is right.



Quote (Many_Names @ 11 Apr 2024 12:56)
The video is also false its states as if we pushed the Arabs into the west bank… but we didnt there are Arabs in acco, haifa, lod, tora, tybe, and many other cities.
They came to fight us not vice versa Nakba is self induced

Here is something you ignorants doesnt even bother to learn.

I am a left wing Israeli, and I disclosed my own political stance, so it’ll become clear that even an Israeli with the political views I hold, very much understands that there are Palestinians today, and there is a Palestinian ethnic group with claims for a state of their own, which is fine in the land they currently poses and not on my expanse.

Even if Israel will cease to exist tomorrow (God forbid), and the land will be given to an Arab country or divided between the neighboring Arab countries to control - Palestinian nationalism is such a strong force, that it’ll be a headache even for an Arab country which culture, language and religion are virtually identical to that of the Palestinians to rid off. A good example for this is Jordan - just ask them about “Black September”, 1970. Or Lebanon.

Anyone who denies the fact that today there’s a Palestinian nation, an ethnic group that strongly identifies itself as Palestinians, is either blind or has been living under a rock for the past 50–60 years.

Secondly, the issue that needs to be dealt with, isn’t the existence of the Palestinians or the existence of Palestinian ethnicity and nationalism. The question is - when did the forefathers of the Palestinians decide that they are one, and what was the motivation - was it simply a natural development of a unique group of people that sought recognition and self-determination? Or was it the result of a deliberate, elaborated, longest hatred campaign and practically a crime against humanity by subjugating generations of millions of people to a delusional adventure with the sole purpose to destroy and erase any Jewish presence in the land that is modern Israel?

The forefathers of modern Palestinians had nothing unique about them, that justifies defining them as an ethnic group, when judged in the context of the rest of the Levant and Middle East, as late as 70 years ago.

They were Arab speaking Levantine Muslims with substantial Christian minority among them - typical to the rest of the Levant, and their internal divisions can still be seen, although these divisions are overshadowed nowadays by Palestinian nationalism:



Rural Palestinians - Falaheen which usually worked lands that belonged to rich people - effendis - which lived in Damascus or other cities in the region that provided better quality of life. There was little to no difference between a Falah in rural region of South Syria and North Israel - they even spoke the same dialect most of the times.
Urban Palestinians - Madani which lived in the few urban centers in the lands that have become Israel and the Palestinian-governed disputed territories (Judea and Samaria and Gaza).
Bedouins - nomadic Arab speaking tribes which saw themselves as somewhat superior to the inferior Falaheen and Urban dwellers.
On top of these, there were even more divisions:

Division by Hamula - hamula is basically a clan or an extended family which a person belongs to in the Arab society - many of these clans have no relation to geo-political divisions (ie country borders) - there are many clans that spread few several villages and towns - for example, a very famous clan in Israel is the Zoabi clan, they have members from Northern Israel all the way to Syria. Many Palestinians belonged to such clans and still do to this day. This clan division also sometimes bring about cycles of blood feud between rivaling clans. Different clans have different reputation in the society, with some clans being considered respectful, and others poor and insignificant.
Division by religion - this is the most obvious division which is still very much alive today - Christians were divided by the different rivaling denominations, Muslims were also divided, you had Druze, etc.
Division by ethnic origins - as in other places in the Levant and the Middle East, there were also ethnic minorities among the Arab speaking population that became the Palestinians - Circassians, Bosnians, Sudanese Arabs etc. To this day dark skinned Palestinians from African origins are looked at as foreigners, despite the fact that they’ve been living in the region for almost 200 years (if not before), and Circassians do not view themselves as Palestinians at all.
These divisions were the dominating identities which the forefathers of the Palestinians would have used to define themselves. In a larger extent, they might, just might, view themselves as part of Al-Sham - which was the synonym for this region:

https://i.imgur.com/Xgto8ha.jpeg

It’s name was Bilad Al-Sham, which was used for that territory seen in the map above by the Fatimid, Rashidun and Abbasid Caliphates until the end of the 10th century AD.

After the Crusader states and the Kingdom of Jerusalem have been overthrown in the 12th century AD, the region was divided between Aleppo centered “Northern Syria” and Damascus-centered “Southern Syria” by the consequential empires that ruled the region (the short lived Ayyubid caliphate and later Mamluk Sultanese centered in Cairo).

Then, when the Ottomans took over, they’ve initially created this eyalet (province in Ottoman Turkish) and called it, il-Sham:

https://i.imgur.com/4V7rRdI.jpeg

Then in 1549 it was re-organized into two separate eyalets. The northern Sanjak of Aleppo became the center of the new Eyalet of Aleppo. At this time, the two Syrian Eyalets were subdivided as follows:

The Eyalet of Aleppo (Arabic: إيالة حلب‎)

The Sanjak of Aleppo (حلب)
The Sanjak of Adana (أضنة)
The Sanjak of Ablistan (Marash (مرعش))
The Sanjak of Aintab (عينتاب)
The Sanjak of Birejik (البيرة) (Urfa (أورفة))
The Sanjak of Kilis (كلز)
The Sanjak of Ma'arra (معرة النعمان)
The Sanjak of Hama (حماة)
The Sanjak of Salamiyah (سلمية)
The Sanjak of Homs (حمص)
The Eyalet of Damascus (Arabic: إيالة دمشق‎)

The Sanjak of Damascus (دمشق)
The Sanjak of Tripoli (طرابلس)
The Sanjak of Acre (عكا)
The Sanjak of Safad (صفد)
The Sanjak of Nablus (نابلس)
The Sanjak of Jerusalem (القدس)
The Sanjak of Lajjun (اللجون)
The Sanjak of Salt (السلط)
The Sanjak of Gaza (غزة)
As you can see, still no sanjak or eyalet that can somehow unify the forefathers of the Palestinians into a separate people from the other Levantine Arabs.

Even as late as 1872, up until the end of WW1 (1918), this was the political division of the Eyalet of Damascus:

Aleppo Vilayet (Arabic: ولاية حلب‎)
Sanjak of Zor (Arabic: سنجق دير الزور‎)
Beirut Vilayet (Arabic: ولاية بيروت‎)
Syria Vilayet (Arabic: ولاية سورية‎)
Mutasarrifate of Mount Lebanon (Arabic: متصرفية جبل لبنان‎)
Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem (Arabic: متصرفية القدس الشريف‎)
Mutasarrifate of Karak (from 1895) (Arabic: متصرفية الكرك‎)
This is how the map of these subdivisions looked like:

https://i.imgur.com/iFF2t8W.jpeg

The political status of the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem was unique to other Ottoman province since it came under the direct authority of the Ottoman capital Constantinople - this wasn’t because the Ottomans recognized that the inhabitants of Jerusalem were a unique ethnic group of course, but was part of the Tanzimat reforms which wanted to ease the tensions in the empire, one of which was the foreign powers claim to all sorts of religious minorities and the holy places in the Holy Land.

The first Arabic national movements of that region were also, as it’s naturally assumed, Syrian in nature, and sought to liberate the entire region of what was called Eyalet Al-Sham from the Ottomans into an Arabic independent state. These ideas were gaining more and more support among the elites in all of Syria, especially around the turn of the 19th century, beginning of the 20th century.

At the same time, other ideas of nationalism among the Arabs were more encompassing, seeking to create a pan-Arabic Middle Eastern state.

However nowhere, even during those times of the birth of Arabic nationalism, anyone suggested that there’s a separate ethnicity of nation called Palestinians - they were viewed as Al-Sham inhabitants, or Syrians (or South Syrians).

Even when the British created the Mandate of Palestine following WW1, the Arab speaking population didn’t see themselves as unique and separated from their Al-Sham brethren, and saw the name Palestine as a colonial division (which it really was, as it was an artificial entity established by a colonial power).

At the same time, starting from later 19th century, with the increasing immigration of Jews back to the Holy Land Joining their own people and beginning of Zionism, there began an Arab resentment towards the Jews among some circles of society. In the beginning, it was mostly fueled by traditional Muslim antisemitism, but over time the nationalists start viewing the Jews as a threat to their own national aspirations to create an independent Syria that will rule all over Syria (Al-Sham).

This hatred would be the shaping force of Palestinian nationalism and ethnic identity - as the Arabs of the Mandate of Palestine would be rallied by their leadership in incitement against Jews. This would all culminate into 1948. When the Arabs lost, and were unable to destroy the young Israel, they had a problem - what to do with all the Al-Sham Arabs from the areas that have now became Israel?

Their solution was to put them, without political and usually without basic human rights, in refugee camps, and abuse and use these poor people as a tool, a political weapon, against Israel. This policy of distinguishing those Al-Sham Arabs from the previous territory that the British named Mandate of Palestine by the other countries that were formed from Al-Sham - Syria, Lebanon and Jordan - could be viewed as the ethnogenesis of Palestinian ethnicity.

As can be seen, this was an artificial, pre-meditated move, as these people basically were no different whatsoever from other Syrian, Lebanese or Jordanian Arabic speaking people. Even the way they internally divided their own society was exactly the same - and had nothing to do with the geography of the Mandate of Palestine.

Adding more to it - up until the late 1960s and early 1970s, when the dream of a pan-Arabic Syria had began to be seen as not achievable, many Palestinian nationalist didn’t even aspire for a separate Palestine - they did aspire to liberate the lands taken by the Jews in order to create Al-Sham. However, by that time, a generation after the Arab refugees that have became known as “Palestinians”, the train has already left the station - and a new ethnic group was born.

This is the real tragedy - the Palestinian ethnicity and nation identity was forged by antisemitism, manipulation by the Arab League, and needless suffering of the forefathers of the Palestinian people.

And this is one of the reasons why peace between Israel and the Palestinians is so hard to achieve

Fact stays you have no idea what you are talking about your teachers are youtube videos and Palestinian propaganda


History doesnt really matters to you only your hatred and antisemitism

This post was edited by Many_Names on Apr 11 2024 04:36am
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Apr 11 2024 04:33am
Quote (Many_Names @ Apr 11 2024 11:22am)
History doesnt really matters to you only your hatred and antisemitism


you do realize I trust, that you just quoted yourself, ergo, you called yourself a hateful anti-Semite ? Did you mean to call me a hateful anti-Semite ?

I have to ask, what is your definition of anti-semitism? We have said repeatedly that when referring to Israel we are referring to the Israeli Government, and its policies. If you want us to caveat our responses and cross our T's and dot our i's fine.

YOU, and those Jewish AND NON-JEWISH people, that share your beliefs, i.e. that Palestinians are all terrorists and should all be wiped out, are justifying the terrible things that Israel has been doing for decades. The policies of committing ethnic cleansing and genocide is wrong. This is not anti-semitism, it is a rejection of these policies, not of all jewish people.

The Israeli Government elected this government. The Government is the will of the people. Make of that what you will. Yes there are some wonderful jewish people, and wonderful christians and arabs.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 11 2024 04:44am
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Apr 11 2024 04:37am
Quote (ferdia @ 11 Apr 2024 13:22)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHqs15gOv4k



what you wrote is only deflecting. you are narrating historical points and are using those to justify what Israel has been doing for decades.


You are deflecting not knowing the basics.
Quote (ferdia @ 11 Apr 2024 13:33)
you do realize I trust, that you just quoted yourself, ergo, you called yourself a hateful anti-Semite ? Did you mean to call me a hateful anti-Semite ?

I have to ask, what is your definition of anti-semitism? We have said repeatedly that when referring to Israel we are referring to the Israeli Government, and its policies. If you want us to caveat our responses and cross our T's and dot our i's fine.

YOU, and those Jewish AND NON-JEWISH people, that share your beliefs, i.e. that Palestinians are all terrorists and should all be wiped out. The policies of committing ethnic cleansing and genocide is wrong. This is not anti-semitism, it is a rejection of these policies, not of all jewish people.

The Israeli Government elected this government. The Government is the will of the people. Make of that what you will.


Another deflect full of lies and irrelevant assumptions

Fact stays there were no Palestinian people

It works both ways they elected Hamas 20 years ago, they practically elected terrorist organization to govern them
You eat what you sow

This post was edited by Many_Names on Apr 11 2024 04:41am
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Apr 11 2024 04:41am
Quote (Many_Names @ Apr 11 2024 11:37am)
You are deflecting not knowing the basics.

Another deflect.

Fact stays there were no Palestinian people


If you were fully engaged in meaningful debate, you would explain how I am deflecting. My argument is:

The state of Israel has brutalized the indigenous population for decades. It continues to commit ethnic cleansing, for decades. Whenever the indigenous population rises up in protest, Israel brutally suppresses it disproportionately.
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Apr 11 2024 04:44am
Quote (ferdia @ 11 Apr 2024 13:41)
If you were fully engaged in meaningful debate, you would explain how I am deflecting. My argument is:

The state of Israel has brutalized the indigenous population for decades. It continues to commit ethnic cleansing, for decades. Whenever the indigenous population rises up in protest, Israel brutally suppresses it disproportionately.


You assume they are indigenous people but they arent Arabs are indigenous in Arabia.
If we commit ethnic clensing how come Arabs lives in Israel have full and equal rights and there is not a single Jew in Jordan, Gaza or any of their territories?
They ethnically cleansed us only now we can hit back and we hit hard.

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Apr 11 2024 04:52am
Quote (Many_Names @ Apr 11 2024 11:44am)
You assume they are indigenous people but they arent Arabs are indigenous in Arabia.
If we commit ethnic clensing how come Arabs lives in Israel have full and equal rights and there is not a single Jew in Jordan, Gaza or any of their territories?
They ethnically cleansed us only now we can hit back and we hit hard.


are you actually saying that Israel was devoid of all life before you got there ??
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