These are great responses, my thoughts:
1) while Israel has not formally declared nor is their nation in a state of total war, I recognize that is because there exists a massive power disparity such that a de jure or de facto state of total war in Israel is unnecessary. Gaza, however, is in a state of total war, a state in which they enacted on October 7th. The massacre was a de facto declaration of total war by the government of Gaza, and their sanctioned soldiers committed those acts of war directly against civilians. In their declaration of total war, their civilians thus became a part of the war effort. Not only in theory, but in reality: non-combatant civilians of Gaza willfully aided and abetted the massacre. In doing such, they willingly forfeited civilian status.
2) while the broader conflict began in 1948 (or earlier depending on interpretation) the present war began from an aggressive breach of peace by the government of Gaza. Similar to how World War 1 and 2 are viewed as distinct wars, yet can also be interpreted as two parts of the same war, these conflicts can also be delineated as such. That is, this war was a war of aggression started by the government of Gaza.
3) While I did paint Gaza collectively here, and technically could be considered incorrect, such manner of phrasing has broad precedence (for example, you often see in the news how "Moscow did this or that" when they are referring to the federal government of Russia, and not every single Moscow resident) in Western discourse. I would also argue that in this particular war there is a disporportionate amount of civilian support in comparison to historical wars - did polling not indicate that a supermajority of Gazans were supportive of the war? But of course not every Gazan is guilty here, and it is tragic that they are necessarily lumped together into a single entity.
I always appreciate good faith discussion 😊 my views on war are rooted in traditional Western & Christian philosophy, drawing largely from the works of St. Augustine.
1. Gaza is also not in a state of total war, noting less then 100,000 people have died. If Gaza was in a state of total war, all able bodied men would have taken up arms, which has not happened, as demonstrated by the (relatively) low loss of life. While this is inconvenient for the Israeli narrative of Hamas= all Palastinians, nevertheless they keep on with their collective punishment.
2. There was an Oct 6th before Oct 7th and there is documented evidence of the Israeli atrocities before Oct 7th. Airs Striking civilian populations is eventually going to lead to consequences. Oct 7th was a terrorist attack, not an act of war. Israel has not formally declared war on Gaza as to do so would be to legitimize Gaza as an independent body separate from Israel, i.e. a sovereign state. If you want to call Oct 7th an Act of War then first you have to call Gaza a country. Israel bombing Iran can be considered an Act of War, but Oct 7th is a terrorist attack from a minority against their slave masters.
Finally its difficult to view the Israeli conflict with Gaza through the lens of St. Augustine doctrine. It is much easier to view Israels attack on Iran through this lens however (noting Iran funded all the terror groups around Israel). There is nothing just when related to Gaza, unless you believe it is just for the people of Gaza to rise up against their slave masters.
To paraphase a scots man. I am sinwar. I see before me a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny. You have come here as free men, and free men you are, what will you do with that freedom? will you fight? (gallops along the line, everyone shouts "NO!")... or will you run?
Aye, we will run.
Aye, fight you may die, run, you will live. at least a while. and then, many years from now, dying in your bed, what would you give, to come back here, and tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but never take, our freedom
rewr rewr.
sometimes a bit of comic relief is required to touch on serious topics.
This post was edited by ferdia on Jun 27 2025 03:14pm